V4.x won't let me use app-specific changes to default mouse button actions. Help Please ;o)

[ncp10]

Hello,

Background: I've used a MS mouse software applet (Intellipoint in Win 7, or in Win 10 I'm using MS Keyboard and Mouse Center) which allows you to create application-specific changes to the default actions of the buttons on your mouse. So for FSX/P3D, I've configured the middle mouse button press to send "shift-O" or "spacebar" which as you know gives control of directional view to your mouse, i.e. mouse look of sorts. What's really nice about that since FSX is the motion has, for lack of a better description, a certain motion blur/latency, softness such that when you pan hard w/ the mouse to the right it looks more natural than using the hat switch on your controller for panning, which is linearly related to the motion being used--fixed and mechanical.

Anyway, just yesterday built a new machine and bought and installed P3D 4.5 All's well but one unfortunate issue for me: I cannot get the application-specific action to work in P3D 4.5. Worked great in 3.4. If I go to the Win 10 desktop the middle mouse does whatever I've programmed it to do using the applet, so it's probably not Win 10. But in P3D 4.5, nothing happens when I press the middle mouse button. It is really a nice way to look around while flying since my hand is on the mouse anyway, and of course doing it for nigh on 15y is a real habit I'd rather not give up. And it's such a seemingly simple issue. I wonder if there is something else with P3D 4.5 that just doesn't recognize the middle mouse press? Where can I look to solve this issue?

FSUIPC has a checkbox to enable 'mouse look', but it is not the same at all. The fluid motion isn't there in panning as it is w/ shift-O or Spacebar.

Thanks in advance

[ncp10]

Wow, great support for this $199 upgrade to v4. So many posts here, so few responses.

[Pete Dowson]

FSUIPC has a checkbox to enable 'mouse look', but it is not the same at all. The fluid motion isn't there in panning as it is w/ shift-O or Spacebar.

FSUIPC is doing exactly the same thing, but of course has to do it through SimConnect (to send the exact same events). The result is therefore very much dependent on the performance you are getting in P3D. It is smooth on my fast system, but not on my slower one.

Pete

[ncp10]

FSUIPC is doing exactly the same thing, but of course has to do it through SimConnect (to send the exact same events). The result is therefore very much dependent on the performance you are getting in P3D. It is smooth on my fast system, but not on my slower one.

Pete

Thanks Pete I was hoping you'd chime in. I have fabulous performance in P3D on my new 9900K, but for whatever reason the effect is absolutely not comparable to in-sim mouse look. It's 'smooth' enough for sure, but it does not have the soft 'catch up' such that when you pan suddenly it looks very fluid, whereas w/ mouse look thru FSUIPC it's 100% linear, mechanical, and so not at all like what I have gotten in-sim since FSX days right on thru P3D 3.4.

Did any coding changes during the port to 64 bit compatible FSUIPC 5 possibly affect this can you say? If you disable the checkbox under Misc, then use the assigned key(s) to enable mouse look in sim, are you certain it's identical? I wonder if what might be happening is FSUIPC has taken control of the middle mouse button thru its own mouse look via SimConnect possible such that it's not possible for another app (MS keyboard and mouse Center or MS Intellipoint 8.2) to act as it always has for me?

I did try writing a script using AutoHotKey to send the in-sim assigned key combination to my middle mouse button but alas, same exact issue--it simply doesn't respond to the middle mouse button press. Can you think of anything else that may be interfering w/ mouse look via SimConnect? Brand new install of Win 10 fully updated, and every other thing is worker fabulously. Thanks in advance I really need to solve this!


I really need to solve this as it's almost enough to get me back to P3D 3.4 it's so important to me.

[Pete Dowson]

It's 'smooth' enough for sure, but it does not have the soft 'catch up' such that when you pan suddenly it looks very fluid, whereas w/ mouse look thru FSUIPC it's 100% linear, mechanical

Hmmm. not sure I understand. that. For me smooth is smooth and linear is prefereable to me, being predictable.

Did any coding changes during the port to 64 bit compatible FSUIPC 5 possibly affect this can you say? If you disable the checkbox under Misc, then use the assigned key(s) to enable mouse look in sim, are you certain it's identical?

No change possible really in that area. It's simple sending of events.

I wonder if what might be happening is FSUIPC has taken control of the middle mouse button thru its own mouse look via SimConnect

FSUIPC doesn't use SimConnect to read the mouse, but normal Windows mouse messages, same as P3D. And it doesn't do anything with them unless an option to do so is selected.

... such that it's not possible for another app (MS keyboard and mouse Center or MS Intellipoint 8.2) to act as it always has for me?

I did try writing a script using AutoHotKey to send the in-sim assigned key combination to my middle mouse button but alas, same exact issue--it simply doesn't respond to the middle mouse button press. Can you think of anything else that may be interfering w/ mouse look via SimConnect? Brand new install of Win 10 fully updated, and every other thing is worker fabulously. Thanks in advance I really need to solve this!

I really need to solve this as it's almost enough to get me back to P3D 3.4 it's so important to me.

Sorry, but if it was okay in 3.4 but not in 4.5 it really is a matter for L-M, so i hope they've seen your report. Despite appearances sometimes they do really read these.

Pete

[ncp10]

Hmmm. not sure I understand. that. For me smooth is smooth and linear is prefereable to me, being predictable.

Pete

Thanks for your reply.

An easy way to get you on the same page I'm on is this simple test. Forgive me if you've already done this, but it is the way to substantiate the difference I'm seeing.

1. Deselect Mouse Look in FSUIPC.

2. Go to the controls dialogue in P3D. In the Search field on the upper right, type in 'mouse' sans quotes. What will appear should be an Event called: Mouse - control view direction (on/off) I want to say default was Shift + O.

The other really desirable difference in what I see using this, over what I see using FSUIPC's mouse look, is the changing view fluidly self center when you, for example, pan quickly from looking towards a side then panning back to centered. With what I see thru FSUIPC, it's rigid, non-centering. Once you used the in-sim version of mouse look I can't imagine ever wanting to go back to the non-fluid, linear, non-centering mouse look. If you're not familiar try it and let me know how it goes. This method is 'predictable', but it's fluid and has both horizontal and vertical centering done very fluidly getting you back to your default VC eye-point orientation.

It's a mystery for sure but something is interfering w/ the middle mouse button press. I also want to guess it's not anything LM did, it's interference from some other process. If you could kindly do this brief test to confirm that will help in the troubleshooting process.

Thanks again

[Pete Dowson]

Go to the controls dialogue in P3D. In the Search field on the upper right, type in 'mouse' sans quotes. What will appear should be an Event called: Mouse - control view direction (on/off) I want to say default was Shift + O.

Sorry, what does this do for you, and how does it relate to the above?

The other really desirable difference in what I see using this, over what I see using FSUIPC's mouse look, is the changing view fluidly self center when you, for example, pan quickly from looking towards a side then panning back to centered. With what I see thru FSUIPC, it's rigid, non-centering.

I'm intrigued. Can you log Events in FSUIPC and tell me what event is being used for this centering. I wasn't aware of such a facility.

I'm afraid i won't have time to do any tests for you for a weeks or so. Very tied up at present.

Pete

[ncp10]

Go to the controls dialogue in P3D. In the Search field on the upper right, type in 'mouse' sans quotes. What will appear should be an Event called: Mouse - control view direction (on/off) I want to say default was Shift + O.

Sorry, what does this do for you, and how does it relate to the above?

Pete

What 'this' does is simply allow you to press the middle mouse button and look and zoom, but retain the self-centering attribute, which is so much better than what I get when enabling Mouse Look via FSUIPC. The above is just how one does this w/o using FSUIPC, the built-in mouse look feature in FSX/P3D 2.x-4.x. As I say, once you've used it I can't imagine finding the linear, mechanical mouse look in FSUIPC.

Since I don't know anything about logging using FSUIPC, and looking for events in coding even less, I'd best defer to you on that. The 'testing' proposed takes all of a few seconds. When you have those few seconds try it and let me know if you can see what I plainly see as to the difference between the two mouse look methods. I'm confident that FSUIPC is not interfering w/ this as I temporarily removed FSUIPC.dll and the issue did not resolve.

To elaborate on one more piece of this, within P3D's controls dialogue one can choose any button on the yoke, or any key combination, to toggle on and off mouse look w/ self-centering, the fluid one I'm referring to. BUT...in order to have the middle mouse button do this, just as you have done in FSUIPC, one needs to use MS Keyboard and Mouse Control Center, or MS Intellipoint 8.2, both software apps that allow users to reassign mouse buttons globally or application-specific as in this case w/ P3D, where I want the middle mouse button press to generate a key combination set up in-sim.

[Pete Dowson]

What 'this' does is simply allow you to press the middle mouse button and look and zoom, but retain the self-centering attribute, which is so much better than what I get when enabling Mouse Look via FSUIPC.

But I assume that is done by sending a Pan Reset, right? I don't understand the wording you quoted as that implies you switch the mouse look facility off (to me, anyway).

When does the P3D facility do this pan reset, or if you are explicitly doing it, why not explicitly do it with FSUIPC too?

As I say, once you've used it I can't imagine finding the linear, mechanical mouse look in FSUIPC.

As I already told you, FSUIPC is simply sending the PAN events that same as P3D would be using. Are you saying you prefer an exponential of accelerating panning? You'd prefer FSUIPC to send them more frequently the longer you hold the button down?

Since I don't know anything about logging using FSUIPC, and looking for events in coding even less, I'd best defer to you on that.

Sorry, I am far to busy at present. If you cannot explain what you are talking about there's really nothing for me to follow up. Ogging is a Tab in FSUIPC options, and Event logging is a simple checkbox there. If the resulting log is so puzzling when you look at it I would look at it (or an extract) for you), but i'm certain you'd recongize terms involving the word PAN easily enough.

Perhaps I should just suggest you just continue to pursue your main grievance with L-M. I was only trying to point out what FSUIPC does and I was trying to find out what you thought was wrong with it, but I'm still none the wiser. :-(

To elaborate on one more piece of this, within P3D's controls dialogue one can choose any button on the yoke, or any key combination, to toggle on and off mouse look w/ self-centering

If you can assign in P3D you can most certainly assign the same in FSUIPC. FSUIPC offers a superset of the controls P3D offers, not a subset! I don't think you could have looked far in the substantial list, There's a Text list too in your FSUIPC documents folder. I've counted 20 pan-related controls assignable to keypress, button, or even in many cases axis, in FSUIPC, and I think I missed some.

FSUIPC mouse look facility does use the regular controls, but it currently doesn't do a Pan Reset afterwards. Most folks i know use the mouse look, as I do, to change the view smoothly rather than select "view left", "view right" etc. To have it resetting as soon as you release the button (as I have to assume you mean) seems wrong to me. Personally I'd rather have a separate button to do that, but if that's actually what you are getting at I'm sure it can be added as an option in a future release.

Pete

[ncp10]

But I assume that is done by sending a Pan Reset, right?

NO, Pete, it IS NOT a pan reset!

I suggested you do this on a prior reply and I can only guess you didn't. Here it is again, try it--it will take a few seconds and you will then understand what I'm talking about:

1. Deselect Mouse Look in FSUIPC.

2. Go to the controls dialogue in P3D. In the Search field on the upper right, type in 'mouse' sans quotes. What will appear in the list of hits will be an Event called: Mouse - control view direction (on/off) I want to say default was Shift + O, but you can change it to whatever key you want. Or you can have FSUIPC map a button to whatever key combination or key you've assigned for that event, which is what I've done since the middle mouse button won't respond to configuring it to send those assigned key(s). But again, having this controlled by the middle mouse button of course is key. With FSX and P3D until v4.x, one could use an MS app to remap the mouse button to the assigned key combination or key. I'm not seeing that capability in FSUIPC, i.e., being able to remap a middle mouse button press to an key or key combination.

3. Now when in the VC, simply hit whatever key combination you assigned to, "Mouse - control view direction (on/off). Until you hit that assigned key you will be in the better mouse panning and look I'm referring to. And you will be able to zoom as well w/ the wheel as you can w/ FSUIPC's mouse look implementation.

You'll surely see the self-centering (vertically and horizontally) difference, and likely once you see how it works, I can't imagine not preferring it. At that point, Pete, you can implement this because everyone will likely prefer this. Just try it before replying. I think it's just a feature people often don't know about, and it seems you must be one of them.

OK PETE, this might do it, and simply!!!!!! By now you must have thought of this but if not: all you need to do, is CHANGE the assigned action in FSUIPC's mouse look enable from PAN EVENTS, to whatever you assigned in the controls dialogue in P3D for Mouse - control view direction (on/off).

Pete, if that's it, people will love this change I'm certain. I've used it since FSX and it allows everything you already get but does it more fluidly and the self-centering is very desirable. Of important note, it won't force a centering action, it just gently gets it back to horizontal and vertical center.

Keep me posted!

[Pete Dowson]

NO, Pete, it IS NOT a pan reset!

Well, it is not what you are stating either, here:

Go to the controls dialogue in P3D. In the Search field on the upper right, type in 'mouse' sans quotes. What will appear in the list of hits will be an Event called: Mouse - control view direction (on/off) I want to say default was Shift + O, but you can change it to whatever key you want.

That is the MOUSE LOOK TOGGLE control. All it does is turn the mouse look facilty on and off. It doesn't change the view. Please please do read the FSUIPC documentation of its Mouse Look facility on page 13 of the FSUIPC5 User Guide! And there are alternatives to that already implemented should you want to take advantage of them to use FSUIPC's Mouse Look.

You'll surely see the self-centering (vertically and horizontally) difference, and likely once you see how it works,

Sorry, there is no "self-centering" happening here. I've no idea what you have going on there. I could tell from the logging I asked for, but without that, sorry, you are on your own.

And how to you stop it self-centering if you actually wanted to continue to see the view you panned to (as I would normally want to).

Pete

[ncp10]

Well, sorry you couldn't get to see the fluid, self-centering effect I'm seeing and I have absolutely no doubt you'd find it superior, no doubt whatsoever. I wonder if maybe programming you have in FSUIPC is preventing you from seeing what I see. You could always rename the .dll to .bak and retry. It's so clear to me I can't fathom you aren't seeing it. But you don't really seem to care to see anyway, you seem more focused on staying with what you have it would appear, and seem too busy to bother. It's your loss I'm afraid--I'm still able to use it, just not w/ the middle mouse button which is more desirable for sure.

I'll look on page 13 and hopefully there is something there to achieve the same effect thru FSUIPC which would be all I could hope for since I can't get the mouse button to do what I see thru in-sim mouse look--I'll let you know if it fixes the issue.

Cheers