Graphic Card Upgrade

Any issues, problems or troubleshooting topics related to computer hardware and the Prepar3D client application
Ridgeandgable
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby Ridgeandgable » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:36 pm

Hi Guys

My current rig is a AMD Ryzen 4.00ghz 8 core pc,
32gb ram
2tb HDD
2x RX580 cards (on card 1)
2x 28" gaming monitors with eyfinity set to 3680*1080 Res card 2
3x 19" monitors ( 1440*768) I think on card 2
1x 10" Touch Screen Monitor on card 1
1x 6" Monitor

I run the following software
Windows 10
P3D Pro
Orbx
Fsuipc
Pmdg NGX
GSX
Active Sky

Most p3d settings are at very high and at EGPH I get on the runway AVG 15 fsp and in the air about 25fps.
Graphics look good but sometimes I can see the small stutter.

If I change (card 1) which is my main cockpit view (card 2 is all internal displays, pfd, CDU etc) if I change card 1 to a 1070ti would frames improve?

Benchmark reviews say an average increase of 30%

JorgenSA
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby JorgenSA » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:07 am

You should actually concentrate on getting your CPU clock rate up, 4 GHz is a little bit low for P3D these days, and I would say relative to your graphics cards your CPU is underpowered.

Jorgen

Ridgeandgable
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby Ridgeandgable » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:33 am

Hi

Thanks, pretty sure this is able to be overclocked. Will have a loot at this today and see.

So graphics wise, you think I should keep what I've got and just give more CPU power

JorgenSA
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby JorgenSA » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:33 am

Yes, absolutely.

And if you decide to change graphics cards, get 2 of the same type. You'll avoid all sorts of issues with drivers that way.

Jorgen

Ridgeandgable
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby Ridgeandgable » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:29 pm

Hi Jorgen

I have managed to clock the system,, now running at 4.7ghz (8 cores), forgot to mention CPU is AMD FX 8350

PC is running stable..

Is that enough CPU power now? Don't really want to risk going higher with clocking it
Just to confirm, you think the RX580's that I have, is enough? As buying 2 1070ti cards would cost in excess of £500+

Also, Is 1 large TV 40" going to use less FPS than 2 monitors acting as 1?

Or to gain more fps, should I use my two spare minitors that are smaller, instead of 28", I think they are 22"?

JorgenSA
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby JorgenSA » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:52 pm

I don't know much about a configuration with multiple graphics cards and/or monitors, having a GTX 960 and a single monitor myself.

Maybe some multi-monitor people can step in here, but your clock rate looks good.

Jorgen

CplDaniel
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby CplDaniel » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:44 am

Hi Jorgen
I have managed to clock the system,, now running at 4.7ghz (8 cores), forgot to mention CPU is AMD FX 8350
PC is running stable..
Is that enough CPU power now? Don't really want to risk going higher with clocking it
Just to confirm, you think the RX580's that I have, is enough? As buying 2 1070ti cards would cost in excess of £500+
Also, Is 1 large TV 40" going to use less FPS than 2 monitors acting as 1?
Or to gain more fps, should I use my two spare minitors that are smaller, instead of 28", I think they are 22"?
Ignore graphics for now!
Your single best dollar is spent getting a new CPU. FX-8350 is old as dirt, so you should give it to the kids downstairs. It's not going to matter how high you push the clock speed up on that because the data-flow feeding into that core-clock# on the AMD FX-series processors is notoriously narrow. It's analogous to like a high-pressure(clock-speed) achieved through creating a very narrow flow. Also, I bet it heats the room like a stove-top during the Summertime when you are running multi-hour cross-Atlantic flights in P3d.
Intel just announced huge price-cuts, and there's expected to be a flood of much-more-recent AMD Ryzen CPUs hitting the used market in about a week (July 7) when a flood of AMD users upgrade to new Ryzen 3000 series processors. In general, you should get the best which you can afford for P3d. And your available options at any given price-point should be getting better through-out the month of July.
Daniel

Ridgeandgable
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby Ridgeandgable » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:07 pm

Hi Thanks

I've been looking at the i7-9700K with a RTX-2070, 16gb ram, 512gb SSD and a 1tg HDD for 1300 GBP
or the AMD Ryzen 7 2700X with the 16gb and RX580?

However, I have just formatted and decided to unclock and default the bios and re-installed P3D only to find the same slow FPS and stutters, so I thought fxxk it, I'm going back to FSX, I installed, updated, tested, started adding PMDG, test, AS16, test, UK2000, test, Orbx, test and on final test with all settings maxed out on FSX I was hitting 30 - 40 fps on the runway with all addons active, Climbing through 10,000, hitting FPS over 70 and no stutter

So I showed the wife how it should look (in an attempt to warm her up for a new pc) so I started P3D, loaded the same flight, same addons installed now, and holly cow... Its matching the same as FSX or better. So to summarize ….

Fresh Install of P3D, crap FPS
Add addons - Crap FPS
Test Flight - Crap FPS 10 - 15 on the Gound 20 - 25 above 10k feet

Install FSX, Good FPS
Install Addons - Improved FPS
Test Flight - ON the Ground 20 - 30 FPS, Above 10k 70+

Exit FSX and Run P3D - Same flight, EGPH (Active Sky Running), PMDG, same runway etc, , FPS suddenly jumps at matches FSX!

So what difference did FSX make to P3D???

Only thing that has changed on p3D install was the location, instead of original being c:\Prepar3D I allowed it to goto Program Files as default, but only after FSX was installed, did p3d improve.. Is this just sheer luck or something else?

So I'm now asking myself, do I need to upgrade as p3d and FSX are running smooth as hell with no stutters or poor FPS, and I've tested it in various locations, Edinburgh, London, Ibiza, Amsterdam etc and done a few hours flying with no issue?

CplDaniel
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby CplDaniel » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:57 pm

9700k will give you higher per core instructions per cycle, and you will also get better overclock headroom with an 9th Gen Intel which are the first generation of Intel consumer processors to get metal-soldered internal-heat dissipation instead of the traditional cheap thermal paste.
[More in-depth comment on producing Intel's 9700k and why Intel's 9th Gen is overwhelmingly better-suited for overclocking than Ryzem-2700x which you don't need to read]--> The traditional thermal paste is a little over 1/10 as effective at conducting thermal wattage to the heat-sink when compared with using a high-quality metal conductor. So 9th Gen Intel CPU's arrive practically optimized already for overclocking straight out of the factory when compared with AMD's Ryzen 1700 and 2700.

As for your possible fix: if it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid.
So Whatever works! Maybe you have uncovered a rare old FSX secret program
Daniel

Ridgeandgable
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby Ridgeandgable » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:55 am

Thanks for that..

What about graphics? Stick with the RX580's that I have or change these for the more expensive rtx 2060 / 1070 or 1080?

JorgenSA
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 am
Location: 5 NM NE of EDXF

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby JorgenSA » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:22 am

For now, stick with the graphics you have and concentrate on the CPU - whichever one you decide on - and get that running stably with a high clock rate. This will probably involve a new motherboard. Remember, after you get rig running, and before you attempt any overclocking, to check with the motherboard manufacturer and update the BIOS on the motherboard if a newer version than came with the board is available.

When that is done, and everything has run stably for a while, then you could look into overclocking. And after that has been running stably for a while, then look at the now-available graphics cards and decide what your budget can afford.

Bottom line: after any hardware change, WAIT a little - at least several days, if not weeks - and see if the rig really is running stably, before changing something else.

Jorgen

CplDaniel
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Graphic Card Upgrade

Postby CplDaniel » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:02 pm

Thanks for that..
What about graphics? Stick with the RX580's that I have or change these for the more expensive rtx 2060 / 1070 or 1080?
I just took a screenshot of your comment for record keeping about your finding for getting noticeably better performance out of P3d. Like said above, hold off for the moment at least until you can validate that P3d continues running well on your current PC. If you got P3d running happily now at a nice level and you didn't have to sacrifice any virgin(s) or anything to appease the gods in the process, well then you struck gold. It would be great if you didn't even need a new PC, and if the gods ARE already pleased then best not risk doing anything that might upset them. Also, I'm hopeful that new hardware features will arise in the next 18-months so that for data-intensive high volume computing programs like P3d, today's consumer PC's will seem like ancient baby's toys. Already, the best x570 motherboards built around PCIe4.0 (not on the market, yet. Release date July7th) make the best Z390 board features look like they're old on life-support. That's after ONE generational step in PCIe BUS architecture, with Intel expected to be building around a 2nd big step with a PCIe 5.0 chipset to be released hopefully in time for Christmas at the end of 2020.

If [and I stress a big emphasis on "IF"]the potential benefits I envision emerge, they will come in the form of much faster scenery & effects load-times and inter-operability of the data caches held in between NVMe, System RAM, vRAM, and core CPU & Memory controllers. Imagine being able to load ALL of Megascenary: TEXAS in 6-seconds. Do you know how fast you would have to be flying for that kind of capacity to create a visible stutter? But then again, maybe they say that I'm a dreamer...God, I hope I'm not the only one.
Daniel


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