ViewGroup - very strange issue, LM please help !

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Beau,

I can confirm exactly the same odd visual displacement whilst moving (especially in turns). It's really annoying when trying to stay of the centreline when taking off or landing.

In my case I've only really noticed it since 5.2. I didn't know about the "correctio" by ESCaping and resuming. Not so easily done though when inside a cockpit shell with only proper instrumentation and controls.

I'll try your recent suggestions next time I get my cockpit up and running.

Pete

[micschneider]

Dear Beau,
I tried all of your suggestions but unfortuneately without success. I also installed the newest Nvidia driver and an older one as well to test. The issue is not solved.
What I do not understand is that on inital load of a flight everything works fine as it should.
The problem starts when doing a first reposition or reset of a flight.
So that means that something in terms of window, viewgroup, screen whatsoever gets broken when doing this.
As mentioned before, once this issue is visible I am able to solve it, in the most cases, by pressing esc key, and select resume in the open box...
So something must happen then as well that a realign, resynchronize or something else happens with vsync...
Please, we need still help !
Best regards
Michael

[manikkmanikk62]

Do you see any issues with view groups without using add-on software? What do you see when using the Auto-Fill Desktop view group?

[micschneider]

Hi mannikmannik62,

this has been already and exactly asked on page 1 of this thread...

Cheers

[micschneider]

Dear Beau, can you give us please an update if you are still doing something about this issue ? It is really a desaster that this kind of issue came up out of the blue and nothing seems to help.
@all other users with this problem: did anybody may found a solution ??? Thanks a lot and best regards Mic

[micschneider]

Dear Beau,
any news on the issue ?
Thanks Michael

[capteinjack737p3d]

+1

[Biggles2010]

Although this topic was started last year, it is still relevant because the so called improvements to view groups in P3D5 have succeeded in messing up a pretty good and reliable system which existed in P3D4, for no obvious benefit.

Most of the reported problems are probably related to one basic cause. P3D5 viewgroups do not save and retain zoom levels correctly. When P3D5.3 is running, almost any use of any menu will cause the zoom level to change, usually defaulting to either 0.64, 1.0 or 1.21. The actual value seems to depend on which menu item is selected. It then causes misalignment between screens and an unwanted view perspective.

I have previously been running my cockpit with successive versions of P3D4 where view groups performed much better. There were a couple of menu selections, mainly the Map screen, which caused the zoom level to change to 1.0. It was irritating but once known about could be looked out for. Apart from that, the zoom settings were consistently retained at the desired level allowing screens to be aligned correctly.

I have just made a trial switch to P3D 5.3 HF2 and the 'improved' viewgroup system is useless. For correct perspective I need a zoom level of 0.70 but LM have decided otherwise. Having already set up view frustrums for main and left views, if I set a zoom of 0.70 and go into view group management to adjust the alignment of those frustrums it will appear to work correctly, but is in fact working on some hidden zoom level of 1.21. On clicking OK to accept the view group settings, the two screens are correctly aligned but the view looks wrong. On checking, it is always zoomed to 1.21. If I change the zoom back to the original 0.70 which it was at when I entered viewgroup management, the screens are hopelessly misaligned.

If I ignore that misalignment and save the flight at that point with the zoom at 0.70, and then reload the flight, the zoom level will have changed to 0.64.
This seems to be another of LMs 'preferred' settings. I do not want this. I want the zoom at 0.70 and view groups that work correctly and maintain that zoom level like they did in P3D4.

These failings are repeatable every time, even using the default aircraft at the default airfield. How was it not picked up?

[micschneider]

Dear LM Developers and Support Team,
I am also still suffering from this strange Bug or whatever that is. I dont know if its related to zoom levels or any other strange thing. This behavior of losing sync beetwen the views started for me with v5. V5 is so far the best sim I ever had but this bug drives me really crazy and annoys me a lot.
Beginning v5.3 HF2 my trick to solve it (pressing ESC twice) is not working anymore. Thanks to captainjack737 here in this forum I learned to bring another running program in the foreground, click on it and then use ALT+ TAB to bring p3d back active. But, after reposition or I think even inject new weather etc. the problem is back again.
This is really a problem for all users using a 3 projector setup. Until v5 everything was good. So I dont understand why we still have no solution for an odd behavior which stared by introducing v5?
Please LM, nobody can solve it except you and I also think it is also your responsibility to seriously take care about this problem reported by your community.
Thanks
Michael

[capteinjack737p3d]

++++++1

[Biggles2010]

It seems like LM have lost interest in what are supposed to be their support forums. It's a shame because P3D 5.3 has the promise of being good, but with Viewgroups being broken, it's useless for any situation requiring that facility.

Probably not many P3D users have home cockpits or use Viewgroups, so the failings don't attract much attention, but constantly losing viewgroup settings and changing zoom levels every time the menu bar is accessed are faults which should not be occurring.

In a previous post Beau had stated that they had made some improvements to Viewgroups with P3D5. Like others here, I wish they had left things as they were in P3D4 where Viewgroups actually worked.

Perhaps if we keep posting, someone at LM might notice.

[737SimGuy]

Same exact problem here.

I am hoping the silence means a new release soon, but of course I have no idea. Fingers crossed…

James

[capteinjack737p3d]

yes....I also think, that the long silence can mean: New release......

Maybe V6 with google Maps :-) - ou my godness.......

and of course a fixed Viewgroup!

Jörg

[Beau Hollis]

Is anyone else experiencing the zoom level issue? I'm curious if there is something odd going on with regards to mouse zoom settings. I've never see the menu item clicks changing zoom and breaking groups. If we can reproduce that, it would likely be something we could fix up. We did do some thorough testing when this was first reported and tested several different view group configurations to see if the groups themselves were ever getting misaligned in a way that you could capture while stationary.

I was able to reproduce the synchronization issue with latency between the actual display/projector frame changes. Unfotunately this isn't really a ViewGroup problem as much as it is a problem with the core rendering system and how it interacts with the OS/Driver to get the final image presented to the screen. Some combination of moving to DX12 and threading out our rendering/presentation is likely the cause, and/or changes to how swap chains and vsync work in windows, which frustratingly seem to change behavior ever year or two, especially when in full screen mode. Ultimately its up to the OS/Drivers to do the presenting so its hard to nail this sort of issue down. We are going to continue looking into this, but the kinds of changes needed to address it may be too risky to attempt in a point release or hot fix.

Thanks

[micschneider]

Dear Beau,
first of all thanks a lot for taking this up again !
Where can I check or see what the current zoom level is of each view and if it has changed when the views are not aligned anymore ? Then I would check if I see the same on my side.
It is really still a big pain to have this issues in my environment. I dont know whats causing this misalignment or tearing (you saw my video) but I definetly can confirm that with v.4.5 everything is ok and it doesnt happen there. Regardless which v5 I install the problem is there. On the same Win10 version...So it seems to has something to do with DX12....
Currently I can recover it and bring it to normal with bringing another app into foreground with ALT+TAB and switching then back to P3D again with ALT+TAB. After this everything works again. I also realized that even changing the main volume with my keyboard, I have volume+ and volume- keys on the keyboard, triggers the misalignment / vsync problem. Because when doing this I see on my Projector screen a little Volume window whth the current value. And as said, already this breaks the synchronization between the views...It doesnt need to be a reposition or reset scenarion within P3D...
I also was thinking about to revert to P3D V4.5 but I think this cant be the solution as I really love the performance and the apperance of EA with volumetric clouds in my sim.
So I would be absolutely thankful if you find a final solution for it !
Best regards
Michael