Frame issues in Prepar3D v4.5

[Alan_A]

You can add me to the list of people experiencing performance issues with 4.5.

Did a full uninstall and reinstall yesterday. With frames set to unlimited, monitor refresh at 30 Hz and Vsync set to adaptive in the NVidia control panel, frames set to unlimited in sim, I'm seeing frames on initial scenario load cycling periodically from 30 to 15 and back again. In flights similar to those I regularly used in 4.4, I'm seeing frames degrade from stead 30 to the 20-25 range, with microstutters most visible when looking out the side.

I have a relatively light installation - I use Orbx Global, North American landlclass, and Vector with some restricted settings (e.g. no secondary or tertiary roads, no small rivers/streams). No Orbx regions. No shader add-ons. Active Sky for P3D4 and Active Sky Cloud Art. P3D sliders are mostly middle to slightly right (can provide specifics on request).

I noticed I was able to produce an improvement by reducing autogen sliders - I moved vegetation from extremely dense to dense. Buildings remain at dense. Stuttering was greatly reduced but reduction in frames continued.

Running Windows 10 64 Pro on an i7 7700K o/c'd to 5.0, hyperthreading off; 1080ti SC, 64 gigs of DDR4-3600 RAM. Monitor is a single 50-inch 4K running at 3840 x 2160, at 30 Hz refresh as noted.

I should add that I tried deleting my P3D.cfg a second time (did it for the first time when I installed) and letting it rebuild, but didn't gain anything.

Open to suggestion and again, happy to share more detail as needed (though with a gap of a few hours starting about now - it's Saturday evening here on the US East Coast...)

[Martyson]

You can add me to the list of people experiencing performance issues with 4.5.

Did a full uninstall and reinstall yesterday. With frames set to unlimited, monitor refresh at 30 Hz and Vsync set to adaptive in the NVidia control panel, frames set to unlimited in sim, I'm seeing frames on initial scenario load cycling periodically from 30 to 15 and back again. In flights similar to those I regularly used in 4.4, I'm seeing frames degrade from stead 30 to the 20-25 range, with microstutters most visible when looking out the side.

I have a relatively light installation - I use Orbx Global, North American landlclass, and Vector with some restricted settings (e.g. no secondary or tertiary roads, no small rivers/streams). No Orbx regions. No shader add-ons. Active Sky for P3D4 and Active Sky Cloud Art. P3D sliders are mostly middle to slightly right (can provide specifics on request).

I noticed I was able to produce an improvement by reducing autogen sliders - I moved vegetation from extremely dense to dense. Buildings remain at dense. Stuttering was greatly reduced but reduction in frames continued.

Running Windows 10 64 Pro on an i7 7700K o/c'd to 5.0, hyperthreading off; 1080ti SC, 64 gigs of DDR4-3600 RAM. Monitor is a single 50-inch 4K running at 3840 x 2160, at 30 Hz refresh as noted.

I should add that I tried deleting my P3D.cfg a second time (did it for the first time when I installed) and letting it rebuild, but didn't gain anything.

Open to suggestion and again, happy to share more detail as needed (though with a gap of a few hours starting about now - it's Saturday evening here on the US East Coast...)

" I'm seeing frames on initial scenario load cycling periodically from 30 to 15 and back again. In flights similar to those I regularly used in 4.4, I'm seeing frames degrade from stead 30 to the 20-25 range, with microstutters most visible when looking out the side. "

Is your initial load the default F22 at KVPS?

For your normal flights which aircraft and add-on software is in use for the flights?
For example, moving maps, online charts, internet activity (videos) or lookups, A1 aircraft, Air Traffic Control / e.g., PROatc (or similar) ?

[Alan_A]

My initial load is the default flight with the F-22. That's with default fair weather and no Active Sky. Track IR in use.

I've also tested a more demanding (and idiosyncratic) real-world scenario, using the A2A T-6 at KGAI, with Active Sky and Ultimate Traffic Live. Track IR in use. No other add-ons.

As expected, cycling of frames and stuttering are more pronounced using the Texan and the add-ons.

With the default flight, initial frames are steadier and performance is smooth until turning back toward the field at low altitude (under 2000 feet). Stutters and frame fluctuations appear at that point. Again, reducing autogen levels produces some improvement but not fully back to 4.4 levels.

Hope this helps.

[Martyson]

My initial load is the default flight with the F-22. That's with default fair weather and no Active Sky. Track IR in use.

I've also tested a more demanding (and idiosyncratic) real-world scenario, using the A2A T-6 at KGAI, with Active Sky and Ultimate Traffic Live. Track IR in use. No other add-ons.

As expected, cycling of frames and stuttering are more pronounced using the Texan and the add-ons.

With the default flight, initial frames are steadier and performance is smooth until turning back toward the field at low altitude (under 2000 feet). Stutters and frame fluctuations appear at that point. Again, reducing autogen levels produces some improvement but not fully back to 4.4 levels.

Hope this helps.

I have not used TrackIr for a long time.

How is your default load F22 at KVPS without TrackiR or any other add-ons in use?
Note: Active sky has to be loaded/started before flight sim is started so it would not be in use for your test, correct?
Currently ActiveSky is in Beta testing for P3Dv4.5. So, I do not use it for testing P3Dv4.5.

[Alan_A]

Have not tried the default load without Track IR. I’ll test that next chance I get - either in a few hours or sometime tomorrow.

So far, reducing autogen is the only thing that’s had a noticeable impact on performance - that’s in the default scenario as well as the real-world use case.

[maxam]

With thousands of add-ons and literally hundreds of thousands of possible conflicts how do you believe testing should be done?

Just this afternoon I found an FSX add-on that forces 32-bit runtime files on a 64-bit system that wrecks other add-ons. You want the P3D testers to solve this? Many add-ons simply replace default files of the sim, you want Lockheed to solve that?

Like almost every other project manager of add-ons, we guarantee it works with the sim. It is totally impossible to promise everything else. What version of GSX? What version of ActiveSky? If you are able to keep that all tested with all the complex aircraft we sell I really would like to hire you as a quality assurance employee. We never managed. I know no company who managed.

That's fine, but what about all the add on folders that are still present in the main root of Prepar3D, do they hinder or improve calls and performance? Wasn't Prepar3D designed to have all add on's capable of being installed outside the main root install of the sim?

[Rob Ainscough]

I was able to confirm the drop in FPS and have reported my testing details to LM.

Test 1
Clean install of V4.4 with no add-ons

Test 2
Clean install of V4.4 with ORBX FTX Global, Germany North and South

Test 3
Clean install of V4.5 with no add-ons

Test 4
Clean install of V4.5 with ORBX FTX Global, Germany North and South

Video of all 4 tests including graphics settings used (4K):
https://youtu.be/FTpqtCe_Mgk

V4.5 FPS was down 29.7% with Default only (no add-ons), and FPS down 50.3% with ORBX FTX Global and Germany (see chart)


Source data from MSI AB logging to .hml files (CSV) and imported into xlxs (spreadsheet tabbed data for each test and summar tab)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Tny8X ... DumXCjxZj9

Test Flight Files (.fxml, .wx)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XMg52 ... X4oeDcR5UB
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11FZaH ... ogHdpPpCOv

Recorded Flight File (.FSR)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Sc2Y_ ... 7Rmqw3fQvY

Graphics Settings File (.cfg)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tpp7K ... YlueTVLS4L

Also, an additional issue when loading the .FSR (Flight Recording file), the scenery loading process ran twice and completed twice (see video 0:38 min 100% complete but starts over loading from 0% again)?
https://youtu.be/TFH4YNa9Ltw

Testing PC:
i9 9900K
2X 2080Ti (driver version 425.31)
2TB M.2 Samsung 970
32GB DDR4 RAM
Single 4K resolution Samsung Monitor
Windows 10.0.17763

Rob.

EDIT: for those (like myself) who lock to 30Hz Vsync (and don't max all graphics settings) then you might not notice any issue

[valir]

Thanks Rob for the tests, seems in line with which I noticed.
On my tests, at EDDH, in VC of FSLabs A319 I had 16 fps then I unchecked the FTX Germany North (all 4 checks from Scenery) and fps went to a constant 30fps (during takeoff with lights on to 26fps minimum).

The default fps loss I can not see as I have the fps limited at 30 fps (30Hz refresh rate) and then FTX GEN bring them even lower.
I reinstalled from 4.4 to 4.5 both the client and the content, deleted the shaders. I compared using the same settings in P3D.

[simon747]

I updated the client and the content yesterday. My fps are the same as 4.4. I only use orbx global and uk2000 scenery at the moment. It is fluid and loads faster. I have a 8600K at 4.9 ghz and a 1080 standard unit, but fly in 4k. I don't max my autogen, but do keep autogen speedtrees at dense. All sliders are medium for the most part, keep traffic via ut live at 60% and am getting consistent high fps in the 787 and the 737, so not sure if you keep your sliders including LOD down, you may not have a performance drop in 4.5 as Rob mentions here....

'EDIT: for those (like myself) who lock to 30Hz Vsync (and don't max all graphics settings) then you might not notice any issue'
Rob Ainscough http://www.p3dWiki.com

[valir]

I updated the client and the content yesterday. My fps are the same as 4.4. I only use orbx global and uk2000 scenery at the moment.

Only with ORBX Global I do not have any issue, only you use FTX regions the fps drops more.
But FTX regions always had a fps drop.
So:
P3D 4.5: ORBX Global + FTX Germany = 16 fps (under my locked 30 fps)
P3D 4.5: ORBX Global = 30fps (locked 30fps)
But in 4.4 I had also a drop of fps with FTX Germany.
So now in fact the intial fps loss comes from P3D but could not be seen due the fps lock. So most probably equals the FTX previous standard drop.
I hope I explained it clearly. This can be seen also in the table from Rob.

[stiarol]

The test result from Rob tells me that the problem lies with the latest update from LM. Orbx region packs has always had some kind of performance impact, which is perfectly normal considering the amount of details the sim has to work with. The Orbx performance impact have always been manageable with the correct settings, but with the new update from LM I went from a steady 30 fps (locked) at KSFO with Orbx and Flightbeam installed, to 15-19 fps with the exact same setup and scenario (PMDG NGX, Flightbeam KSFO and Orbx region pack for that area).

4.5 brings something with it that causes this. If the solution is for Orbx to make some changes to their products to fully work with 4.5 or of LM has to release a fix for some faulty code on their side is yet to be figured out.

While I wait I have gone back to 4.4 and will monitor the situation before updating to 4.5.

[cannow]

repost from orbx forum I have seen Robs table for Vram and memory and not bad cant say the same for me
Vram for me with 4.5 JV settings very modest No weather 30hz refresh rate and vsync onOrbx TrueEarth at Southampton EGHI DA62 no weather
Ram 12.4
Vram 7
start flying and this rises My system has 16gig of ram and a RTX 2080 hence my concernDid go back to 4.4 yesterday and condiderably lower but have not got figures at least 3 gig lower
FTX England at Southampton EGHI DA62 no weather
Ram 6.2 gig
vram 3.2
True earth certainly hates 4.5

[Kai-Uwe Weiss]

Good morning Rob,

thanks for your detailled tests, you nailed that problem down.
Just a question: in 4.4 I use the parameter "TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10" together with "HIGH_RESOLUTION_TERRAIN_TEXTURES=1". This gives me very sharp textures which I like very much. Using both parameters in 4.5 seems to lead into a VRAM-overflow. In EGHP, with the default Piper, I use about 10,7GB VRAM, unflyable. Now I saw your measured datas for VRAM; they are at a very normal level.
So I ask you if, in 4.5, it is still nessessary to keep alive "TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10" in the prepard3d.cfg for sharp textures or maybe only "HIGH_RESOLUTION_TERRAIN_TEXTURES=1" now for giving the same result like both parameters did in 4.4, but keeping the demand for VRAM in normal regions?

Kai

[JimmiG]

Just chiming in to confirm that I'm also experiencing significantly reduced performance in 4.5 compared to 4.4. I don't know whether the problem is limited to OrbX regions, but it's definitely more severe there, especially when you also add OrbX airports to the equation.

It's hard to do any accurate A/B comparisons, since you can't have 4.4 an 4.5 installed side by side, but I'd say where I used to get 25 - 30 FPS, I'm now getting 14 - 18 FPS.
I'm running a Ryzen 1800X, 16 GB RAM, Windows 10 1809 and a GTX 1070.

[Jedi928]

It seems to be clear for me the FPS drop is not related only to Orbx but is concerning every addons. I hope LM is going to quickly find why so many FPS drop and short pauses in this 4.5...