P3Dv5 - Will all addons be installed outside root directory?

[Airwolf]

Hi guys,

I hope all is well with you guys (and your families) during these crazy times.

Thank you for working on P3Dv5 for the past 2 years and looking forward to the release.

I am just wondering if you guys are going to enforce all third party addon installation outside the root. With P3Dv4 (all previous releases) all developers did their own thing. My threads are famous on avsim regarding this. I have even questioned Orbx, Flightbeam, Majestic, and PMDG regarding this. Some of these developers told me flat out that they are not going to follow through with addon method in P3Dv4.

It gets tiring to see all addon files everywhere in the system. Some files are outside and and some are inside; it isn't logical and the enormous time it takes to diagnose issue is just annoying.

I have lost count on how many times even on here I have seen people saying this "ABC" or "XYZ" app doesn't work and blame P3D and then turns out it is another app "DEF" causing the issues (and some files are in the sim root and outside).

Leaving to developers to follow proper rules just hasn't worked in the past. The biggest players took forever and some do not even bother with it.

I really hope you guys can just flat out enforce from Day 1 of P3Dv5 that all addons have to be installed outside the sim root directory plain and simple.

Just hoping that I am not the only crazy person who can see the benefits of all addons outside and laid out in an consistent manner.

You guys gave all developers from P3Dv3.4 time to start following new methodologies and yet all these years later we still have devs doing things from FSX days. Legacy has its life, but come on it is time to move on.

Please understand my request.

Thank you for taking time to read this post.

Be Safe,

Airwolf

[Psybear]

I'll second that.

C

[JorgenSA]

I have my 4.5 scenery add-ons in 2 places - those that needs to install with the "preferred method" (the .xml method) go in \P3D\Addon Scenery, and those where I can set the path myself go in a folder totally outside P3D called \P3D Scenery. Both these folders are right under the root. My AI traffic files go in \Scenery\World\Scenery, of course, but my AI aircraft are also in a folder outside P3D.

But, what I believe is most important, is that these folders are not in the C:\Program Files or C:\Program Files (x86), where nasty UAC can get their hands on them. UAC is turned completely off, BTW - and this is something you should only do when you know what you are doing!

Then again, I only install what I know is compatible with P3D v. 4 and up - which is probably a rule that many break, and suffer the problems as a consequence. Certified compatibility is the key here....... I will say I have sinned against this rule ONCE - I ported the Beech King Air 350 over from FSX, but this one goes into one folder under Simobjects\Airplanes, so no problem there if it gave me any trouble. It's been there for over a year now without any problems.

From all that I have seen so far, you should be able to use these installation practices also in v. 5. At least I have no reason to believe otherwise.

Jorgen

[Airwolf]

Hi,

Yes, I do know about those locations in massive detail. I even managed to manually make Flightbeam & Majestic aircraft via addon method. But doing it manually is absurd. For example PMDG doesn't even follow addon method guidelines.

My main concern is that V5 is completely new sim; and LM should enforce all third party addons to be installed outside period. Giving developers free rein causes everyone to do their own thing.

For example - Flightbeam, Majestic, PMDG all install in the root sim. Then you have A2A which installs outside the sim. Then move to scenery developers - Some just install inside the sim and some outside.

No consistency by developers. I have been requesting all third party devs to follow the new guidelines, few developers directly told me that they have no intention to follow.

Just look at your effect folders - some addons even though they install outside the sim, it loads up global effects into the sim. Now everything is confusing during uninstall/upgrade times. It becomes a mess.

Another analogy would be all third party windows app get installed inside windows root directory - just imagine the mess it will create.

I am just hoping for once LM can dictate and enforce third party addon policy.

[JorgenSA]

L-M cannot dictate to the add-on manufacturers. But YOU can - by voting with your feet!

Jorgen

[Airwolf]

Technically LM can absolutely dictate it as it is their sim.

I will be very grateful to hear from LM devs regarding this topic.

Thanks

[Martyson]

Just for information.
The P3Dv5 Release notes and Fixes is here for your review:
https://www.prepar3d.com/home-slider/2020/04/115906/

[EllipticCurve]

Why does it matter where add-ons are installed?

If devs are doing their jobs properly they won't break the simulator simply through installing their products into the same folders.

The simulator is already split so aircraft and sceneries occupy their own folders away from the core simulator, so if an add-on is failing to do this (or worse, is modifying core files without notice) then the developer doing that wants talking to.

Some developers spam files all over the OS. One developer puts files in the base sim, in ProgramData, in AppData, and their own program folder under Documents. WHY? Stop littering!

The products I develop are installed inside the P3D folders, but are not overwriting or modifying base simulator files. There is no problem.

[Airwolf]

Wouldn't it be easier to have everything outside the sim. I do not know your addon. Lets say for conversation sake. Your addon installs perfectly. Now the user gets another addon - somehow files get entangled if it is in effects or Global/Scenery directory etc. Now come to diagnose it - the user has to contact you and other dev to figure it out.

Worse - user wants to uninstall - but there never is a clean install. For example if I uninstall PMDG birds - they still leave their directory and few files. I am just like Why??

Now if new Sim upgrade comes - all addons are already there outside and P3D just picks them up. For example, I was testing out a product from another dev, his apps files were all outside. I kept messing up with P3D and doing a clean install and never had to worry about installing the addon b/c P3D instantly picks it up. No mess, no stress.

LM went through lot of trouble to make the new addon system; leveraging it should be beneficial for all devs and users.

[JorgenSA]

+1 to the last two gentlemen!

Jorgen