Hello LM team,
I am having some related issues in multiview configurations. There are lighting issues and cloud orientation issues as well.
The main issue is lighting synchronisation between views. Many things are affected:
-clouds
-fog
-sky
-HDR (I can live without that ...)
I have had these problems for some time, and I could work around some (distant clouds for instance). But the new lighting system in P3D V4 seems different again and I still am clueless.
In the following thread http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic ... 34#p139834 Beau Hollis mentionned this issue would be looked into, at least in viewgroups/multichannel cases. Is that the case so far?
In fact, is using viewgroup actually any different from a synched multiview? if there are differences (and lighting/clouds issues are not happening there), is there a way to use viewgroups on single monitor setups? I could not get that to work, but might be my bad...
Thanks
Jean Luc
Multi view issues
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Adam Breed
- Lockheed Martin
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:17 pm
Re: Multi view issues
Hi Jean,
Could you explain your system/monitor setup a little more?
Clouds, fog, and the sky should all properly align. We use this capability often on our training solutions.
Do you have any screenshots or photographs of the issue in Prepar3D v4?
How are you doing synced multi-views? What is your use case of using view groups on a single monitor?
Regards,
Adam
Could you explain your system/monitor setup a little more?
Clouds, fog, and the sky should all properly align. We use this capability often on our training solutions.
Do you have any screenshots or photographs of the issue in Prepar3D v4?
How are you doing synced multi-views? What is your use case of using view groups on a single monitor?
Regards,
Adam
Prepar3D® Engineering Project Manager
Re: Multi view issues
Hello Adam,
Here are two screenshots with the main issues I have, clouds lighting and sky lighting.
I confirm HDR is OFF.
Issue is NOT aligning (though I still need to play with the clouds setting in the prepar3d.cfg so they have a fixed orientation across views). It is only lighting which, as far as I can see, is view dependent (same system as HDR ?).
I never noticed issues with ground lighting for instance.
I can correct the cloud lighting issue myself by hand modifying the cloud shader, but I am losing part of the new lighting system and would rather have an official fix.
Regarding the sky lighting, I did some digging as well in the shaders but I could not find where it may be located.
Now on to my setup.
I made an application which corrects the perspective from the regular P3D planar projection to a cylindrical projection (it is not warping, warping still needs to be done by an other application).
it is intended for full cockpit with video projections on cylindrical screen, with 1,2 or 3 projectors.
It allows me to have full control on the displayed image, hence I can correct the image in realtime for seating position in the cockpit (horizontal and vertical offset), as well as enforcing the desired horizontal field of view (vertical FoV is driven by horizontal FoV and screen resolution).
It can go up to 360° of horizontal FoV, with only 3 views (however with quite some loss of course...loss is marked in the screenshots by the black areas where correction is most visible), but a 180° FoV with 2 views is quite a good setup to save FPS (the screenshots are 180° over 2 views on a 3440x1440 screen).
All of this is done in a PDK module. I use regular views with the camera & effect PDK functions, back in P3D 2.5 there were no view groups so I stuck to this system which is already pretty much powerful enough. My customers are using full cockpits, they do not need to move around the view etc...
It also works with several P3D instances if necessary so the views are aligned (user case with wideview or multichannel for example).
I need to be able to have multiple views on one screen, or even some views spanning over 2 screens for instance, because I need to achieve wide FoV. Unless I am mistaken, but ~140° per view is the limit (and anyway, I do not want to use more than 90° per view to limit distortion and loss after correction), and I usually need 180° to 220° FoV.
Best regards
Jean Luc
Here are two screenshots with the main issues I have, clouds lighting and sky lighting.
I confirm HDR is OFF.
Issue is NOT aligning (though I still need to play with the clouds setting in the prepar3d.cfg so they have a fixed orientation across views). It is only lighting which, as far as I can see, is view dependent (same system as HDR ?).
I never noticed issues with ground lighting for instance.
I can correct the cloud lighting issue myself by hand modifying the cloud shader, but I am losing part of the new lighting system and would rather have an official fix.
Regarding the sky lighting, I did some digging as well in the shaders but I could not find where it may be located.
Now on to my setup.
I made an application which corrects the perspective from the regular P3D planar projection to a cylindrical projection (it is not warping, warping still needs to be done by an other application).
it is intended for full cockpit with video projections on cylindrical screen, with 1,2 or 3 projectors.
It allows me to have full control on the displayed image, hence I can correct the image in realtime for seating position in the cockpit (horizontal and vertical offset), as well as enforcing the desired horizontal field of view (vertical FoV is driven by horizontal FoV and screen resolution).
It can go up to 360° of horizontal FoV, with only 3 views (however with quite some loss of course...loss is marked in the screenshots by the black areas where correction is most visible), but a 180° FoV with 2 views is quite a good setup to save FPS (the screenshots are 180° over 2 views on a 3440x1440 screen).
All of this is done in a PDK module. I use regular views with the camera & effect PDK functions, back in P3D 2.5 there were no view groups so I stuck to this system which is already pretty much powerful enough. My customers are using full cockpits, they do not need to move around the view etc...
It also works with several P3D instances if necessary so the views are aligned (user case with wideview or multichannel for example).
I need to be able to have multiple views on one screen, or even some views spanning over 2 screens for instance, because I need to achieve wide FoV. Unless I am mistaken, but ~140° per view is the limit (and anyway, I do not want to use more than 90° per view to limit distortion and loss after correction), and I usually need 180° to 220° FoV.
Best regards
Jean Luc
Re: Multi view issues
Hello Adam, LM team,
I would like to revive this thread a bit, to see if you have any news on the subject ?
Best regards
Jean Luc
I would like to revive this thread a bit, to see if you have any news on the subject ?
Best regards
Jean Luc
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Rob McCarthy
- Lockheed Martin
- Posts: 3703
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:37 pm
Re: Multi view issues
Jean,
Can you post your screenshots again? We are not seeing them display.
Regards,
Rob McCarthy
Can you post your screenshots again? We are not seeing them display.
Regards,
Rob McCarthy
Rob McCarthy
Prepar3D® Core Lead
Prepar3D® Core Lead
Re: Multi view issues
Here you are, this is strange they are on my webserver.
You may also access them here:
http://imgur.com/LGWOTKp
http://imgur.com/fcJEpX4
You may also access them here:
http://imgur.com/LGWOTKp
http://imgur.com/fcJEpX4
Re: Multi view issues
Any news here?
Can you at least confirm you see the pictures now?
Can you at least confirm you see the pictures now?
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michaelwiki
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:05 pm
Re: Multi view issues
Any news on this issue?
I suppose most users with using multiple views experience the lack of color consistency across views, especially at dawn/dusk. This is especially noticeable the more wide the total view area is. For example our 220 degree wrapped view, with 84 degree Horizontal FOVs is basically unusable during sunset/sunrise due to the distracting shade differences between the 3 views.
I suppose most users with using multiple views experience the lack of color consistency across views, especially at dawn/dusk. This is especially noticeable the more wide the total view area is. For example our 220 degree wrapped view, with 84 degree Horizontal FOVs is basically unusable during sunset/sunrise due to the distracting shade differences between the 3 views.
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Adam Breed
- Lockheed Martin
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:17 pm
Re: Multi view issues
Hi JeeHell,
Yes, we can see the images. To confirm, the issue you are seeing is lack of color consistency, correct?
Looking at the images, do you have any add-ons installed? Additionally, do you have Shadows disabled?
Could you provide us a sample that we are able to use in-house to recreate your setup?
Regards,
Adam
Prepar3D® Engineering Project Manager
Re: Multi view issues
Hi Adam,
I could trace the problem to the weather visibility system in P3D. If I use unlimited visibility, the problem "disappears" in the sky, but remains over water.
If I use a rather big settings (like 80 km), then it is obvious.
There is no other addon used at all, and everything can be reproduced without any addon (plain vanilla P3D).
Problem arise with shadows either enabled or disabled. HDR is OFF.
I made a scenario for you:
http://www.jeehell.org/lighting issue test.zip
This will put you in a position with two views where you will be able to see what I mean. The situation is a the right heading, at the right local time so the lighting conditions are perfect.
You only need to change the visibility settings in the user defined weather options to see the issue.
Best regards
Jean Luc
Yes.Adam Breed wrote: To confirm, the issue you are seeing is lack of color consistency, correct?
I could trace the problem to the weather visibility system in P3D. If I use unlimited visibility, the problem "disappears" in the sky, but remains over water.
If I use a rather big settings (like 80 km), then it is obvious.
The only addon I use does the field of view correction for cylindrical projection.Adam Breed wrote: Looking at the images, do you have any add-ons installed? Additionally, do you have Shadows disabled?
There is no other addon used at all, and everything can be reproduced without any addon (plain vanilla P3D).
Problem arise with shadows either enabled or disabled. HDR is OFF.
As I said, vanilla P3D is enough.Adam Breed wrote: Could you provide us a sample that we are able to use in-house to recreate your setup?
I made a scenario for you:
http://www.jeehell.org/lighting issue test.zip
This will put you in a position with two views where you will be able to see what I mean. The situation is a the right heading, at the right local time so the lighting conditions are perfect.
You only need to change the visibility settings in the user defined weather options to see the issue.
Best regards
Jean Luc
