2d Panel - Blackout

[jhaley101]

I have purchased various versions of P3d, looking forward to the 64 bit version. Please appreciate in reading this post, that there are some old timers out there that still enjoy a nice 2D panel while they fly. I have had the most recent version of Prepar3d working very nicely, but I CANNOT figure out this problem which I have found most closely discussed in the following thread.

Can you help with input. Basically, I'm attempting to use 2D panels and aircraft from FSX in P3D. They "appear" to load fine and work fine, but as soon as I start to cycle views, or change views, my screen blacks out. Sound continues, there is no error, but eventually the sim becomes unusable because it's just a black screen.

I'm a Pro Licence User and sure would appreciate some insight. The following information most closely resembles what I'm experiencing.

JH


*******************


I was inspecting VAS consumption with Process Explorer as I was flying from ESSA to LDSP. Blackout happened over Poland. I noticed in the Process Explorer that "commit charge" was at 99,97%. I closed all other programs quickly and blackout went away as Commit Charge dropped to 96.something %. I flew for a minute, black out came back and CTD happened. Free VAS vas >1,5 Gb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commit_charge

I started to wonder what caused the increase in Commit Charge. I flew same time with my friend, who uses FSX, and he reported that his Commit Charge rarely exceeded 40% on his machine.

I started a new flight, same fligthplan and everything. I kept my eye on Commit Charge all the time, and I found out that when I cycled view "S" through 2D cockpit, Commit Charge jumpted up a little. I continued to press "S": 2D -> Wingview -> Spot -> 2D -> Wingview -> Spot -> 2D.... and so on. After doing this for a minute, Commit Charge went to 100% and everything went black.

I tested this with Majestic Dash Q400 and default F22 Raptor. Majestic has a 2D panel and I was able to recreate the blackout with it. Default Raptor doesn't have a 2D panel, but I was able to recreate the blackout with it too.


All this makes sense now
- I love using NGX 2D panels. During my flight I change views multiple times between 2D, 3D and spot view. This slowly builds up Commit Charge and when it his 100%, blackout happens.
- All my blackout experiences have happened with NGX, because I use the 2D panels (In 2D view). With Majestic Q400, I never use the 2D panels, so I never cycle views through 2D cockpit. That's why blackout never occured with Q400, until I maliciously caused it with cycling views.
- Black out doesn't require plane to have physical 2D panels, only changing to 2D view causes jump in Commit Charge. That's why also Raptor can cause the blackout.
- I added CycleHidden=Yes to cameras.cfg cockpit-section and flew ESSA-LDSP again and guess what= Commit Charge never exceeded 50%, VAS remaining at Split was >1.0 Gb and I was able to fly from point A to point B!
- By disabling cockpit view, view cycling goes: 3D -> wingview -> Spot -> 3D and so on... This way Commit Charge does not build up, even when cycling with "S" for a minute.

It looks like there is problems with 2D view in terms of memory usage. Possibly just on my machine, or in P3D itself. I have had this same problem before and after fresh install of Windows.

Can some of you try to replicate this and report results? I can capture a video from this phenomenon to visually demonstrate what I've said in the text above.
0
pytteros
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pytteros
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4
20 posts
Posted August 31, 2016
I would really like to hear if other fellow simmers here on AVSIM experience the same, what I described in the post #7 above. I have now flown multiple NGX legs without any problems. 2 months of investigating and head scratching has ended!



I also checked my event logs, and appcrash logs and found out that almost all CTD's with this case were kernelbase, .net framework or virtual memory related.

Now without using 2D viewpoint at all, zero crashes.
0
Jim Young
Forums Administrator
Jim Young
Administrators

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11,671 posts
Donor
Posted August 31, 2016
May explain why many get crashes and others, like me with the same scenario does not. I never use 2D panels and always fly with the VC. Glad you were able to find a solution. I may try to get your "fix" in the next rendition of the CTD Guide with a link to this topic. There are so many configurations it is difficult to pin down a solution that fits everyone. Computers systems, games, and humans do not match.

[Martyson]

"Basically, I'm attempting to use 2D panels and aircraft from FSX in P3D."

Which FSX aircraft are you installing into P3D?

Do you use the Migration Tool?

How do you install "2D panels" from FSX"

[jhaley101]

Thanks for the quick reply, appreciate your help.

I'm trying to add some freeware aircraft TDS (Tenkuu Developers Studio) 737 with panels that are also freeware by Ken Wigginton. The 737's are all FSX models.

The aircraft "appear" to install correctly, the gauges and panels are all present. But as soon as I start to try and change views from the 2D cockpit, the blackout occurs. Sometimes it takes several minutes, sometimes it happens quickly and usually depends on how much changing of views takes place.

I recognize that the FSX panels and aircraft are not designed for P3D per se and as a result I may be trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, but here I am with my question. I thought someone here may have some insight as to the blackout problem. I have had P3D set up with other programs ready to go, but this problem still exists.

I purchased the IFly 737 and it has a 2D panel, it claims to work P3D .....I haven't tried it to see if the same problem exists.

Thanks for the help Vaughan

JH

[Martyson]

Do you use the Migration Tool?

[jhaley101]

Sorry, missed that question in my response.

I don't use the tool. Have never tried it. Would you recommend it in this instance?

I didn't think the installation of freeware would be of any benefit.

JH

[Martyson]

I use 2D panels often in FS9, FSX and P3D without problems.

No problems here with PMDG737 or iFly737 in P3D.


You have not used Estonia Migration Tool ..
Ok, so that cannot be causing a problem.
I have never used it.


Have you contacted these developers forums?
Majestic Dash Q400
PMDG
iFly
Tenkuu Developers Studio
freeware by Ken Wigginton

[jhaley101]

No contact with any of the developers listed, thought I would start here as I thought it could have been a setting in the sim.

Do you change views in the 2d panel using key presses? Eg, Look left Shift 4, look back, shift 2 etc? Or do you change views by some other means?

Glad to hear you can use the 2D panels without issue. Do you have all three sims installed on the same machine?

Any thoughts from what you've read here that could be causing a problem?

[Martyson]

No contact with any of the developers listed, thought I would start here as I thought it could have been a setting in the sim.

Do you change views in the 2d panel using key presses? Eg, Look left Shift 4, look back, shift 2 etc? Or do you change views by some other means?

Glad to hear you can use the 2D panels without issue. Do you have all three sims installed on the same machine?

Any thoughts from what you've read here that could be causing a problem?

*************

To change views I right click the screen and change my view from the drop down menu.

For the VC cockpit (some P3D approved aircraft only have VC) I use Ezdok because I prefer the 2D views in the VC.

My FS9 is on an older Win7-64 PC.
My FSX, P3D and Xplane10 are on my newer Win7-64 PC (I never purchased/installed and do not want to install Win10).


Generally, you are having problems with a custom P3D setup with user installed FSX aircraft and FSX 2D panels.

I would first contact each of these developers for answers:
Majestic Dash Q400
PMDG
iFly
Tenkuu Developers Studio
freeware by Ken Wigginton


Lastly, I would suggest the P3D debugging guide:

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&t=123246

[jhaley101]

I uninstalled, reinstalled the latest version of P3d and added nothing to the sim except two TDS aircraft and panels.

Cycling through the 2D cockpit views, external views and changing plans eventually leads to the blackout

AND

This time I have tracked down the error to DXGI_ERROR which is well documented here and external sites.

Problem is, I've read all kinds of posts about the error, but nothing definite about a fix.

[jhaley101]

I "believe" I have finally figured out the problem associated to the DXGI error and the 2d panel blackout.

The cure was not an easy one, I needed to do a fresh re-install of Windows 10 on my flightsim computer. I backed up everything and then did the total reinstall - not the reinstall that saves settings/apps - a COMPLETE reinstall.

then I installed P3d and the problem is no longer occurring after approximately a dozen flights. I don't know what remnants of Windows 7 or Windows 10 or what previous FSX related applications contributed to the problem. Truth is, I don't even know if the reinstallation has fixed the problem.

But it has..............so far. Sharing, as I've seen a lot of people post with DXGI related errors.

John