HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

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Fi5kuS
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HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:32 pm

Hi.

After a lot of testing including cycling between Nvidia drivers, REX 4 TD and Overdrive runway light textures, modifying the Rynway_Lights_Scalar section in the P3D.CFG etc I've come to the conclusion that it is HDR enabled that messes up the appearance of PAPI lights. Here's the issue:

On all default airports + most addon airports (ORBX, Aerosoft but not FlyTampa as they are using custom lightning etc) the PAPI lights appear very big, gloomy and almost melted into each other. Here's a picture showing what I mean:

Image

But once I get a little more closer the runway, PAPI lights suddenly switch and display correct REX 4 TD PAPI lights for instance, or whatever custom runway lightning you have installed. Again, picture underneath displaying the switch:

Image

PS: You might want to open picture in a new tab to enlargen it.

This situation was from KTEX default airport, but same applies for KTEX from ORBX as well as all other ORBX and Aerosoft airports. If I turn OFF HDR, PAPI lights stay the size and texture they should all the way as you approach the runway. It is only with HDR enabled that outside a certain range of the runway, PAPI lights stay over-dimensioned, gloomy, and frankly horrible. Here are my HDR-settings:

Image

Is there a fix for this or is this issue completely new for LM? I am out of ideas. Please help :-)

Mike LM
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Mike LM » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:48 pm

I've actually gotten opposite results. HDR was keeping the light smoother than having it off. I was able to reproduce your pictures by just toggling that. Try deleting your cfg and letting Prepar3D rebuild it. Also, try disabling your add-ons.

- Mike
Prepar3D® Software Engineer

Fi5kuS
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:44 pm

Mike LM wrote:I've actually gotten opposite results. HDR was keeping the light smoother than having it off. I was able to reproduce your pictures by just toggling that. Try deleting your cfg and letting Prepar3D rebuild it. Also, try disabling your add-ons.

- Mike


Tried deleting P3D.Cfg and let it rebuild - did not work. I don't understand why disabling add-ons should make any difference here on a default airport?

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bicha36
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Location: La Paz - Bolivia

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby bicha36 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:03 pm

Mike LM wrote:I've actually gotten opposite results. HDR was keeping the light smoother than having it off. I was able to reproduce your pictures by just toggling that. Try deleting your cfg and letting Prepar3D rebuild it. Also, try disabling your add-ons.

- Mike


Mike he is talking about a change of color during approach while HDR is on. If I change the defult halo.bmp (not sure if this file is the correct) for another one like REX lights, at some distance the default colors are still present but when I get close to the airport then the colors and style are correct. This happen when HDR is active, when it's off everything appeears normal. I'll make a video later for a better understanding. BTW sorry for my English :)
Walter Almaraz

Image

Mike LM
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Mike LM » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:34 pm

Fi5kuS wrote:I don't understand why disabling add-ons should make any difference here on a default airport?

Some add-ons can change files that we never meant to change, or add things that we didn't expect, regardless of the in-sim location. Disabling add-ons also isolate the issue, so that it can be better diagnosed.

Fi5kuS wrote:... PAPI lights stay over-dimensioned, gloomy, and frankly horrible.

bicha36 wrote:Mike he is talking about a change of color during approach while HDR is on.

I may have misunderstood, but it sounds like you're talking about something different. Fi5kuS's issue sounds like its with the overlap of the lights, making them blend together into a "light blob". If you're having issues with coloring, that's a different issue that needs to be addressed.

Especially with things regarding color, pictures can really help us figure out what's wrong.

- Mike
Prepar3D® Software Engineer

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bicha36
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Location: La Paz - Bolivia

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby bicha36 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:04 am

Hi, here is the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bEYOCK ... e=youtu.be

Also here is the set that I choose for lights (by the way, the problem happen with all sets)

Image
Walter Almaraz

Image

Fi5kuS
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:21 am

Thanks for the video - this is excatly what I mean!

Fi5kuS
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:33 pm

Mike LM wrote:
Fi5kuS wrote:I don't understand why disabling add-ons should make any difference here on a default airport?

Some add-ons can change files that we never meant to change, or add things that we didn't expect, regardless of the in-sim location. Disabling add-ons also isolate the issue, so that it can be better diagnosed.

Fi5kuS wrote:... PAPI lights stay over-dimensioned, gloomy, and frankly horrible.

bicha36 wrote:Mike he is talking about a change of color during approach while HDR is on.

I may have misunderstood, but it sounds like you're talking about something different. Fi5kuS's issue sounds like its with the overlap of the lights, making them blend together into a "light blob". If you're having issues with coloring, that's a different issue that needs to be addressed.

Especially with things regarding color, pictures can really help us figure out what's wrong.

- Mike


Tried de-selecting all add-ons and starting on default airport with default plane. Same result.

Image

Image

FYI, I saw another post regarding this issue that was not answered:

viewtopic.php?t=113450

Still don't know whats causing this.

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Beau Hollis
Lockheed Martin
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Beau Hollis » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:57 am

Our point lights go through a special shader which ensures that they never get smaller than a certain pixel size on screen. Most lights are drawn so far away that they are only visible because of this scaling. At this point the lights are a ball of light with a 4px radius that fade out to the edge. To improve performance we stop sampling the texture when they get this small and generate the pixel's color with some math to fade the base color out to the edge. The color and math approximates what you see in our default light texture. I believe the issue is that because the light texture has been replaced with a 3rd party version, it no longer transitions smoothly to the point light approximation we do at distance.
Beau Hollis
Prepar3D Rendering System Lead

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bicha36
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Location: La Paz - Bolivia

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby bicha36 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:26 pm

Thanks for your explanation, I think I'll use the default lights for the moment. Just one question, will you fix or check this lights?
Walter Almaraz

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Saul
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Saul » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:33 pm

Would that question would be better raised with your 3rd Party developer if they will fix their broken lights?

Fi5kuS
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:01 pm

Beau Hollis wrote:Our point lights go through a special shader which ensures that they never get smaller than a certain pixel size on screen. Most lights are drawn so far away that they are only visible because of this scaling. At this point the lights are a ball of light with a 4px radius that fade out to the edge. To improve performance we stop sampling the texture when they get this small and generate the pixel's color with some math to fade the base color out to the edge. The color and math approximates what you see in our default light texture. I believe the issue is that because the light texture has been replaced with a 3rd party version, it no longer transitions smoothly to the point light approximation we do at distance.



Thanks for explanation, but I tried restoring back to default textures in REX4 TD but it did not work. It reverted back to default PAPI light textures yes, but once outside a certain range the switched into larger blobs.

So I don't think it is the fault of 3rd party developers. The issue must somehow lie in P3D (3.2 as my version is).

Fi5kuS
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:58 am

Any suggestions? Complete reinstall is off the table as I almost just did.

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WarpD
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Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby WarpD » Sun May 01, 2016 3:52 am

Here's what I see in the sim:

Image

Image
Ed Wilson
Senior Developer
Mindstar Aviation

Fi5kuS
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:24 am

Re: HDR enabled turns PAPI lights into huge gloomy spheres

Postby Fi5kuS » Sun May 01, 2016 6:51 pm

Sorry for the amazingly crappy video but here you can spot my issue.

1. Look how big the PAPI lights are at the beginning!

2. Look how the PAPI lights slowly reduces size while approaching them - why is this?!

3. Just before toughdown, when having two white and two reds - look how the PAPI lights changes colour/textures once inside a certain range of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woQjjh23mgc


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