Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Other problems or issues not covered by other troubleshooting topics.
RMarty
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Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:06 pm

Hello,

I am experiencing some annoying problems when using Active Sky ASP4 in my ProPlus/Multichannel Home Cockpit. Despite extensive research on various forums and after trying many different settings, I was not able to find a solution for the following issues:

1) Clouds and visibility are not adequately synchronized between the host PC and the client PC. I have mismatching cloud and visibility conditions between the monitors attached to the host and the monitors attached to the client. After a certain delay (usually about 30-60 seconds) the visibility and the clouds become synchronized instantaneously before, after a short period, they mismatch again.

2) About every 5-10 minutes, the client reloads scenery and autogen data while the host waits for the client to complete that (no reloading ongoing on the host). This takes about 30 seconds. My impression is that the frequency of reloading is higher at dusk/dawn than at daytime. The interruptions are very annoying.

The essentials of my simulator configuration:
- 2 high-end PCs and GPUs (everything running very smoothly @ 30-80 fps)
- Same graphics and weather option settings on both computers
- FrameSyncRate=60
- Host PC : P3D Pro Plus, ASP4, ProSim A320 System, 2 monitors driven by a GeForce 1080 Ti GPU
- Client PC: P3D Pro Pus Client, 3 monitors driven by a GeForce 1080 Ti GPU

When I do not run ASP4, everything works perfectly: clouds and visibility nicely synchronized, no reloading of scenery and autogen data. Even when injecting weather from the ProSimA320 IOS (Instructor Operating System), adjustment of clouds and visibility is instantaneous.

Looking forward to comments and suggestions.
Rudy

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janvaane
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby janvaane » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:28 pm

Since both pc's are networked: give this a try...
port 19285 (default value) must be opened/allowed by the firewall on both machines for incoming packets;
|KLM149 | i7-8700k-16GB | Radeon RX580 8GB| flightsimeindhoven.com |

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Beau Hollis
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby Beau Hollis » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:21 am

The multi-channel system starts weather with the same initial conditions and simulates in a deterministic way to keep things the same across channels with a minimum of network and processing overhead. We can't guarantee that things will stay synchronized when add-ons are modifying content or conditions at runtime. Since things run as expected without the add-on we won't be able to investigate further at this time. We appreciate your using multichannel and sharing your feedback. If you have any other issues or feedback for us, please let us know.

Thanks
Beau Hollis
Prepar3D Software Architect

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:47 am

Thank you for your answer, Beau.

Being a software engineer myself, I fully understand that LM cannot guarantee the correct handling of all add-on data injection into P3D, especially in a multichannel configuration. On the other hand, the correct handling of weather data from Active Sky is probably one of the top issues on the wishlist of P3D Multichannel users as it is a very widely used first-class weather engine. A joint effort of LM and HiFi Sim Tech to solve the multichannel weather sync issues would be appreciated very much.

What I still do not understand is why the client performs those scenery reloads (terrain and autogen objects) after the injection of weather data by ASP4 while the host doesn't. I could live with the sky sync issues for some time, but experiencing the terrain and autogen object reloads every now and then is really annoying.

Despite these multiclient sync issues: Thank you all at LM for a superb filght sim software. I know that a flight simulator is a complex piece of software ... ages ago, I designed and programmed the original ELITE, the first PC-based flight simulator that has gotten FAA approval.

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pierrevw
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby pierrevw » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:26 pm

Hi Rudy,

I also use P3D v4.4 multi-channel (with 1 host and 5 client computers), along with ASP4 - which is obviously running on the host computer.

I never encountered your issue #1, so it's not a "standard bug" I guess.

About your issue #2, I can say it sometimes happens here also. Clients usually update weather very fast (just flashing during 1 or 2 frames), doing this every 10 minutes (about) even if there is no weather update in ASP4 at this time (weird, but I can survive).
But sometimes, after a while and for no understandable reason, clients begin to reload weather and scenery/objects, taking up to 30/40 seconds ! If this happens, the only workaround I found is... To restart P3D on all computers, host and clients! Or leave ASP4 and fly unchanging blue skies... ;)

Kind regards,

Pierre
Pierre Van Walleghem
Brussels Flight Simulators
"where computers fly"

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:05 pm

Hi Pierre

Thank you for your post. I will do a full reinstall of P3D, mesh, sceneries and all add-ons next week. Maybe there are some detrimental add-on leftovers from trying out this and that. I hope this will solve issue #1. Let's hope that LM is able to correct the annoying terrain and scenery object reloadings on the client(s). Looking forward to an answer from Beau concerning this matter.

Kind regards,
Rudy

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Beau Hollis
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby Beau Hollis » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:56 am

Does lowering the LOD radius or texture resolution stop or reduce the frequency of reloads?
Beau Hollis
Prepar3D Software Architect

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:50 pm

No, Beau, it does not. Today I have flown three legs to verify that.

The actual weather in the flight area was not too good today with several cloud layers and rain. ASP4 settings: download interval: 15 min, max surface visibility: 75sm, max upper visibility: 199sm. P3D volumetric fog: ON.

The time intervals shown below are the elapsed time (mm:ss) between texture and autogen scenery reloads on the client. The host never reloaded, it just waited for the client to complete its reload.

Flight 1 (LEMD-LEZG, LOD=ultra, texture resolution=7cm): 07:20 / 14:23 / 10:20 / 12:40 / 05:12 / 19:50
Flight 2 (LEZG-LEMD, LOD=medium, texture resolution=7cm): 06:11 / 14:35 / 12:30 / 01:50 / 13:10 / 01:22 / 18:00
Flight 3 (LEBB-LFBO, LOD=ultra, texture resolution=1m): 09:30 / 14:26 / 14:30 / 11:40 / 02:10 / 13:20

Obviously, the client reloads terrain and scenery at every weather injection by ASP4. This is also happens after repositioning the aircraft to another airport:
1) Both host and client reload the terrain and autogen scenery. When done,
2) the outside view is shown with clear skies for a very short time (about 1 sec). Then,
3) ASP4 injects the local weather which immediately appears on the displays connected to the host and
4) the client reloads the terrain and scenery again (after it has already reloaded it in step 1).

Regards,
Rudy

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pierrevw
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby pierrevw » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:48 am

Hi Beau and Rudy,

Same here. No change when lowering LOD.

After a while, each ASP4 weather update triggers a full reload of objects/scenery. It doesn't occur immediately, but not always at the same moment. I would say the problem occurs between 1 min and 20 min after ASP4 is started.
I didn't test yet if the issue happens if no clients are running, maybe is it not linked to multichannel configuration? Are "non-multichannel" people experiencing the same ?

Kind regards,

Pierre
Pierre Van Walleghem
Brussels Flight Simulators
"where computers fly"

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:52 am

Hi Beau and Pierre

Yesterday and today, I did several test flights. I think I have found the cause of the texture/scenery reloads: it is not ASP4 but the ProSimA320 System module.

The first sequence of consecutive flights started at my default airport LSZH. I did NOT reposition the aircraft but flew several legs starting at LSZH without any client texture/scenery reload delays for about 4.5 hours. ASP4 weather was on all the time. At the very end, I temporarily changed the weather through the ProsimA320 Instructor Operating Station (IOS), then back to Active Sky weather. The reloadings on the client started a couple of minutes later and continued at intervals of some 5 minutes.

Restarting P3D solved the issue. I then repositioned the aircraft by the "Navigation/Go to Airport" menu in P3D. No irregular reloads by the client, just the normal texture/scenery reloads like the host. But repositioning the airplane by the ProSimA320 IOS triggered the repetitive texture/scenery reloads on the client.

My conclusion: changing the weather and/or the aircraft position by the ProSimA320 IOS sets some data in P3D such that all subsequent weather injections by ASP4 cause a texture/scenery reload on the client. This only happens when "MSFS" is selected in the ProSim System module configuration; when "Simconnect" is selected, no client reloads are taking place except the normal subsecond reloads as on the host. I will also contact ProSim about the issue.

@Pierre: Did you already check "Simconnect"? No reloads with this setting?

@Beau:
--> Clouds are synchronized between host and client -- not perfectly but more or less ok.
--> The synchronization of visibility conditions resp. ground and upper level haze is bad. It takes quite a long time until they are synchronized (minutes) before they become unsynchronized again. Any suggestions for adequate P3D and/or ASP4 settings to alleviate the problem?
--> (minor issue) The black screen flicker during the subsecond terrain/scenery reloads is optically disturbing. Wouldn't it be possible to delay the blacking out of the screen for 1 second or so such that the black screen is only shown if the reload has not completed during that delay?

Anybody out there using ProSim in a multichannel configuration? How do your clients reload texture/scenery? How well are the haze layers synchronized? I would appreciate a short feedback even if all is ok. Thanks a lot.

Kind regards,
Rudy

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pierrevw
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby pierrevw » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Hi Rudy,
(Hi Beau - if you are still reading - which I really hope :) )

Interesting observations, Rudy. I made some tests today, but on my side I still get the bug if I connect Prosim on SimConnect instead of MSFS. No change. I also get the problem if Prosim System is not running (just Prosim aircraft is loaded).

I'm curious to test with a standard P3D aircraft. Is it really a Prosim thing, or a multichannel issue ?

What's new on your side ?

Kind regards,

Pierre
Pierre Van Walleghem
Brussels Flight Simulators
"where computers fly"

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:02 am

Hi Beau and Pierre

After quite a lot of testing, I have found a step-by-step action sequence to reproduce the client reloads consistently and almost immediately after starting P3D. And I have also identified a startup condition such that the client reloads do not happen, even after hours of flying from airport to airport.

Before I report my findings, I will now deinstall P3D v4.3 as well as all add-ons, clean up the computers, then do a full install of P3D v4.4 and the add-ons. This ensures a clean and up-to-date setup.

Happy new year and kind regards,
Rudy

RMarty
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Re: Active Sky ASP4 with Multichannel

Postby RMarty » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:46 am

Hi Beau and Pierre (and others reading the post)

Sorry, it took me longer than expected to reinstall everything and run the tests. Too much other tasks to complete. P3D v4.4 Pro Plus is now installed. Latest versions of ProSimA320, FSUIPC, ORBX and ASP4 as well. The reloading of texture and scenery on the client while the host is waiting and does not reload (= "Reload") happens as it did before.

When ASP4 is running, the Reload can be triggered by moving the airplane from the default startup airport to another one. I repeatedly moved it from LSZH to CYQB and always had the first Reload almost instantaneously at CYQB. When flying out of my default airport LSZH, the first Reload occurs after an indefinite time, sometimes after a few minutes, sometimes after a few hours. Once the Reload happens, it repeats every few minutes independent of whether the aircraft has been moved away from the default airport or not.

When ASP4 is not running no Reload happens, no matter how long the flight or how many times the airplane is repositioned.

My guess is that ASP4 triggers the Reload issue but is not directly responsible for it. This assumption is based on two strange texture/scenery reloading effects after the airplane has been repositioned (ASP4 not running!):
[1] Sometimes but not always, the host reloads (black screen with reloading message) while the client just does a qiuck basic texture reload (takes a second or so). Then, after the host has completely reloaded the texture/scenery, the client gradually loads the texture/scenery while the host is running (takes about 30 seconds until the client texture/scenery matches the one of the host).
[2] Sometimes but not always, the client viewpoint is noticeably higher on the client than on the host (up to 100-200 m higher) at first. Then, while the simulation is running, it is adjusted to the proper height after a couple of seconds (no black screen with a reloading message).

Could it be that there is a position or time sync problem between the host and the client causing the Reload problems?

Thank you all for any help on the issue.
Kind regards,
Rudy


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