Effect size change issue

Any issues, problems or troubleshooting topics related to the Prepar3D client application.
Larry_R
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:05 pm

Postby Larry_R » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:45 am

I think it behooves me to defer to Beau regarding the questions above. For reference, I have found the problems noted below both in stock FSX wake effects as well as my custom ones.



Thanks much for this Beau; in the interest of economy I did not make it clear that it was the central portion of my wake effect that has been the main or most obvious difficulty. The bow and quarter wake portions in v2.4 seem to reasonably match the same effect in FSX, although in P3D v2.3 and I think earlier these extruded waves looked significantly more opaque in P3D than in FSX. The central wake is quite opaque anyway so it's harder to judge.



It's much harder to make comparisons with the bow and quarter wake portions of the effect because of their nature so I've focused on the central or stern wake that uses the fx_wake_1.bmp texture. Regarding the central wake effect, there are some screenshots in the following link with titles that I hope are explanatory. http://1drv.ms/1nMLoRP



In trying to eliminate extraneous detail and be able to make accurate comparisons I made a very simple test effect; it is simply a square tile. The size can be set to some known object; in this case I set it to the approximate beam of the boat because that was easy to do and I could take measurements off of a screenshot. In FSX, when the scale rate of this test effect is set to zero a linear strip is created. Not so in P3D v2.4 as I hope one of the clips illustrates. It's also possible to see exactly what happens as the scale rates are varied as well as the effect of fade in and fade out settings. I've copied the test effect below. I also added the test .fx file and the custom wake effect file used in the screenshots of the WSF ferry to the link above should that be useful.

I've wondered if this issue can be duplicated on another machine or if it's perhaps related to the video card. Mine is a Radon R9 270X



Thanks for looking at this issue Beau!



[Library Effect]

Lifetime=5

Version=2.00

Radius=-1

Priority=0

//p3d scale test





[Properties]



[Emitter.0]



Lifetime=0.00, 0.00

Delay=0.00, 0.00

Bounce=0.00

Rate=0.05, 0.05

X Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00

Y Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00

Z Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00

Drag=0.00, 0.00

X Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00

Y Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00

Z Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00

X Rotation=0.00, 0.00

Y Rotation=0.00, 0.00

Z Rotation=0.00, 0.00

X Offset=0.00, 0.00

Y Offset=0.30, 0.30

Z Offset=0.00, 0.00

Pitch=0.00, 0.00

Bank=0.00, 0.00

Heading=0.00, 0.00





[Particle.0]

Lifetime=100.00, 100.00

Type=21

X Scale=30.00, 30.00

Y Scale=30.00, 30.00

Z Scale=0.00, 0.00

X Scale Rate=0.00, 0.00

Y Scale Rate=0.00, 0.00

Z Scale Rate=0.00, 0.00

Drag=0.00, 0.00

Color Rate=0.11, 0.11

X Offset=0.00, 0.00

Y Offset=0.00, 0.50

Z Offset=0.00, 0.00

Fade In=0.00, 0.00

Fade Out=0.99, 0.99

Ground Normal=1

Shade=1

Face=1, 0, 1



[ParticleAttributes.0]

Blend Mode=1

Texture=fx_mul_1.bmp

Bounce=0.00

Color Start=240, 240, 245, 255

Color End=245, 245, 245, 0

Jitter Distance=0.02

Jitter Time=1.00

uv1=0.00, 0.00

uv2=1.00, 1.00

X Scale Goal=300.00

Y Scale Goal=300.00

Z Scale Goal=0.00

Extrude Length=60.00 //30.00

Extrude Pitch Max=90.00

Extrude Heading Max=10.00



Orbx Developer, Maritime scenery blog: https://larobinson22.wordpress.com/

Gigabyte GA z270x-ud5 mobo, Intel i7 7700k 4.2GHz, Corsair DDR4 3866 16 gig, Gigabyte Raedon Vega fx, Win 10, Evo 960 NvMe 2TB FSX, P3D v3.4, v4.x

Henk Schuitemaker
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:49 am

Postby Henk Schuitemaker » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:06 am

I am just new to P3D, installed v2.4 last week and I have the same issue as Dave, all my lights/afterburner/smoke FX particles are scaled down compared with FSX. A good example is the stock fx_navred.fx file.
Is it possible to make the older v2.3 shader ParticleDraw.fx file available as a possible interim fix until a permanent solution is found?

Henk Schuitemaker
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:49 am

Postby Henk Schuitemaker » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:41 pm

Dave Rowberry just did sent me some updated afterburner FX files for the Aerosoft E.E. Lightning F6 which we are currently testing. He did multiply the particle X Scale/Y Scale with 2 and it works.

Example:

Old FSX version:
[Particle.1]
Lifetime=0.01, 0.01
Type=19
X Scale=0.30, 0.40
Y Scale=0.30, 0.40

Updated version for v2.4:
[Particle.1]
Lifetime=0.01, 0.01
Type=19
X Scale=0.60, 0.80
Y Scale=0.60, 0.80

wallydog69
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:45 am

Postby wallydog69 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:24 am

Wake effects are extrusions (a connected triangle strip that follows a path and varies in width) whereas most effects are sprints (a single 4-sided quad). As such they go through two different code paths. The extrusion effect sizes were not effected by the main window’s aspect ratio the way sprites were, so their size was consistent, and could be replicated 1-to-1. Sprite and light sizes vary in FSX depending on the window’s aspect ratio and the WideViewAspect setting. We would certainly like to know about any other issues there may be with the particle system. It would help if you could post the fx file name or the text of the file if its custom, and screenshots in p3d/fsx.

Beau,
Thanks for your response to this issue. I did a comparison between the default v2.4 particledraw.fx and a modified file with changes to the 2 lines you mentioned in a previous thread.
http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/topic/problem-with-boat-wakes-in-version-2/#post-50350

Changing the particledraw.fx file and deleting all shaders reverted back to a a fuller effect for afterburners, nav lights, and landing lights. However, sxtrusions such as wakes were also effected in size and shape. The wakes in v 2.4 are more exact in size but have a odd sawtooth effect as mentioned in another thread by LarryR

Also all versions of P3D 2.x vertically offset some effects like wakes, contrails and helicopter downwash. I suspect this is caused by the manual tweaks using a monitor oriented vertically. There also seems to be a lag in timing of wakes and contrails as their transitions seem delayed on my system. I've taken video to help illustrate these issues better showing wake effects in P3d v2.4, P3d v2.4 with moddified particledraw.fx file (named P3D v2.3) and FSX for comparison. I'm running in 1920*1080 (16:9) aspect ratio.

I hope this thread helps resolve these issues once and for all and thanks to you and the LM Team for all your hard work.

http://youtu.be/QQteKYqEHHE?list=UUBHRMmIK5xf4l28IpvNTzFw

http://youtu.be/vCex9etyBzs?list=UUBHRMmIK5xf4l28IpvNTzFw

http://youtu.be/dfmP7jOqSP0?list=UUBHRMmIK5xf4l28IpvNTzFw

Larry_R
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:05 pm

Postby Larry_R » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:50 pm

Thanks for posting the videos wallydog, they confirm what I am seeing too. The sawtooth or repeating arrowhead shape is quite clear in your clips.
Orbx Developer, Maritime scenery blog: https://larobinson22.wordpress.com/

Gigabyte GA z270x-ud5 mobo, Intel i7 7700k 4.2GHz, Corsair DDR4 3866 16 gig, Gigabyte Raedon Vega fx, Win 10, Evo 960 NvMe 2TB FSX, P3D v3.4, v4.x

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Beau Hollis
Lockheed Martin
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:25 pm

Postby Beau Hollis » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:06 am

This was caused by a shader bug introduced with the scaling fixes made for 2.4. Extrusions and particles use different scalars by design. When I updated the function that creates vertex positions for extrusion cross sections, I assumed all extrusion cross sections used it. It turns out the tail end of each section uses it but the front end uses the standard particle scale. This is why there is a sawtooth pattern. It will be fixed in the next update.
Beau Hollis
Prepar3D Software Architect

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DaveWG
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Postby DaveWG » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:34 pm

Will the update keep the reduced sized particle effects for lights etc? I've been rescaling various 3rd party fx files as the need arises (easy enough to do, but a bit repetitive!) but if the shaders revert to the old size I'll hold off doing any more.

abranpuko
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:04 am

Postby abranpuko » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:04 pm

Hello! Does it has to see also with the aitraffic navigation and strobe lights?. I remember that in fsx we could see those lights even 100 km far away from our cockpit. Now, in prepar3d, only in 10km, they dissappear. Could you help to solve this problem? Flying at night can be great when you can find another planes in action. :)

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Beau Hollis
Lockheed Martin
Posts: 1887
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:25 pm

Postby Beau Hollis » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:10 pm

Effect sizes will stay the same for particles. The extrusion effects such as wakes and contrails will be sized down a bit in the process of fixing the bug but should match the sizes in v1/fsx.
Beau Hollis
Prepar3D Software Architect

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DaveWG
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Postby DaveWG » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:17 pm

Thanks Beau.

abranpuko
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:04 am

Postby abranpuko » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:14 pm

i wonder why every time i ask for the ailights no one really knows the answer. is it about because no one really knows why the light distance is different in prepar3d and fsx?. thank you very much, anyway. i will continue trying to understand the problem :) thanks from spain.

DylanM
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:46 am

Postby DylanM » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:46 pm

@ Abranpuko, the MyTraffic devs were looking into the AI strobe issue and this was their conclusion:
http://forum.simflight.com/topic/77753-prepar3d-night-lights/

abranpuko
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:04 am

Postby abranpuko » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:40 pm

DylanM: Thanks!!!. At least im not the only one who wished a "longer tracking of visual elements" as its said in the link you have invited me to read.
Now, its my turn to ask to LM if its possible to change this and make bigger the night light distance from aitraffic.
Again thanks. You are very kind!

Abraham.

abranpuko
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:04 am

Postby abranpuko » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:45 am

...a last thing: the aiships lights are seen from a very big distance. Maybe...we could do some trick.

Larry_R
Posts: 333
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:05 pm

Postby Larry_R » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:13 am

Thanks for looking into the sawtooth extrusion issue Beau! If the leading edge and trailing edge of an extrusion are treated differently, it might present an opportunity that could be exploited in the future.
Orbx Developer, Maritime scenery blog: https://larobinson22.wordpress.com/

Gigabyte GA z270x-ud5 mobo, Intel i7 7700k 4.2GHz, Corsair DDR4 3866 16 gig, Gigabyte Raedon Vega fx, Win 10, Evo 960 NvMe 2TB FSX, P3D v3.4, v4.x


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