Autogen loading in patches...

Any issues, problems or troubleshooting topics related to the Prepar3D client application.
Bernie
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:13 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby Bernie » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:14 am

You seem to be kinda agressive towards LM. Demanding a fix or an answer.

I still cannot understand why Autogen is in any way important for a training platform. And this is what P3D is intended and only allowed to be used for.
Easy, if I was going to fire a missile at a target, then I would like the target to be there.
KInd Regards

Bernie.

zap737
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby zap737 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:26 am

Easy, if I was going to fire a missile at a target, then I would like the target to be there.

LOL. Love your work Bernie !!

You seem to be kinda agressive towards LM. Demanding a fix or an answer

I presume you are directing your uncalled-for comment to the many people have been reporting this deficiency since v4.1 at least. Go back through this thread and all the other threads in relation to this problem and count the number of people who have called for this to be addressed.

It's not aggression but frustration at LM's lack of response to a long-standing, proven bug, over at least three versions (4.1, 4.2, 4.3)

I still cannot understand why Autogen is in any way important for a training platform. And this is what P3D is intended and only allowed to be used for.

The question to you KampfHase, is why are you happy to accept this deficiency or bug?

Don't you want the best training platform available ? Don't you want P3D to be as realistic as it can be ?

If, for example, you are training for visual navigation, you can't train realistically if you can't look ahead and see the cities and towns with their buildings in the right place. If you had any real world training experience, you would know this.

If you are training, you train for real and that means representing the world as accurately as you can.
Asus Z370-A | 8700K @ 5.0 Ghz | 32GB DDR 4 | GTX 1080TI | 4K Monitor @ 30Hz | Samsung 970 EVO | Track IR 5 | Windows 10 Pro x64 | Virpil Mongoose Stick | TM Warthog Throttle | MFG X-Wind Rudder Pedals | Orbx Global | Orbx Vector | Orbx OpenLC NA, EU

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Mike Sierra
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Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby Mike Sierra » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm

...
The video was made without the use of Nvidia inspector and with frames locked at 30. So that kinda blows that theory out of the water.

The video is undeniable evidence that the problem exists and it also happens without any add ons as well.
...
So this is a proven deficiency of P3D and LM needs to fix it.
I know that my hardware isn't quite up-to-date, when considering the recommendation of DDR4 RAM (I still use DDR3), but maybe that is why I can prove that the theory isn't "blown out of the water" completely:

I'm flying in OrbX Southern Germany scenery region, a quite hardware demanding add-on, where my computer (I hardly dare to write) manages not more than 10-12 fps. The sim is jerky, but I prefer high autogen settings rather than fluid display (personal taste - or used since decades, as my hardware in my early years NEVER was of the latest brand ;o) ).
Locking frames to 30 and straightly cruising at 200 knots at 2000 ft lets me come nearer and nearer to the autogen loading patches, until I enter autogen-free scenery. The machine only catches up with autogen drawing, when I pause the sim.
Locking at 20 fps nearly is the same, but (!) locking at embarrassing 10 frames (the lowest possible - remember my hardware!) moves the loading patches into a distance where I hardly can recognize the patchy loading, including the black buildings which become textured later. And the loading distance remains in that distance, no matter how long I continue my flight!

Indeed, there was a version of P3D, where the autogen trees and houses were "born" as a dot, slowly growing into shape, so making the autogen appear smoothly, and the last versions don't include this feature any more, but:
In one aspect I cannot understand the sub-aggressive mood against LM concerning patchy autogen.
Did you ever notice, that ALL mesh is, and ALL ground textures are loaded in patches (!), each with more detail than the former one? And I haven't read complaints about that ever (yet?).
I'd liked to ask LM to let us learn about the reasons _why_ they turned off the 'smooth' autogen (which also was loaded in patches, if you only looked precisley enough, but as described: starting as a 'bud growing into shape', so it would not stand out.

Just to avoid misunderstandings: I don't suggest ANYONE to limit fps to 10 (you could get eye cancer from that jerkyness ;o) ), as I'm going to return to unlimited fps as soon as I've left Southern Germany, but maybe (only MAYBE!) reducing fps a bit lower could move out the line of autogen loading into a distance, which is bearable?
Just as a workaround until LM - maybe - finds a way to return to the smooth loading autogen?

Michael.
(otherwise addicted to P3D...)
N 48°10' E 13°30' 496m
Austria, Europe
-vv-
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero, I7-8700K, 6x 4.70GHz, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR4-4133, 2x ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 (SLI) @ 5760x1080, Win10prof64 on 1TB SSD, P3Dv3.4.22.19868, P3Dv4.4.16.27077 on 2GB V-Nand SSD

AnkH
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby AnkH » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:33 am

Well, the designation "loading late and in patches" is not that much about the actual appearance of autogen, but that it is not loaded early enough. It would still look bad even if it is progressively blended in as it was before, yet the problem of no autogen in front of you would remain. Might be less visible, yes, but still annoying.
------------------
Chris

Hardware: i7 8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte Aorus GTX-1080Ti OC, Samsung SSDs (250GB for OS, 2TB for P3D), Windows 10 Home

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Mike Sierra
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:07 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby Mike Sierra » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:09 am

Can you observe in improvement of the problem 'loading too late' when reducing the fps limit? - Just for interest.
Michael.
N 48°10' E 13°30' 496m
Austria, Europe
-vv-
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero, I7-8700K, 6x 4.70GHz, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR4-4133, 2x ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 (SLI) @ 5760x1080, Win10prof64 on 1TB SSD, P3Dv3.4.22.19868, P3Dv4.4.16.27077 on 2GB V-Nand SSD

AnkH
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Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby AnkH » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:49 pm

Yepp, to a certain extend. Somehow Aerosofts LSZH is one of the problematic sceneries for my build, it is really hard on FPS. If I use unlimited, the autogen west of the airport in about 2-3nm distance is not loaded directly when firing up P3D, only with a delay of several seconds. After reducing autogen draw distance to "medium" or "high" and limiting the FPS internally to 36, the autogen is loaded correctly.
------------------
Chris

Hardware: i7 8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte Aorus GTX-1080Ti OC, Samsung SSDs (250GB for OS, 2TB for P3D), Windows 10 Home

B777ER
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby B777ER » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:39 am

I am getting this as well in 4.3. Had it in 4.1 and 4.2. Sucks, wish they would fix this (and the disappearing shadows).
Eric

zap737
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby zap737 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:29 am

I am getting this as well in 4.3. Had it in 4.1 and 4.2. Sucks, wish they would fix this (and the disappearing shadows).

Yet another person who verifies the problem, in addition to all the others.

We asked them to fix it in V4.1

We asked them to fix it in V4.2

We asked them to fix it in V4.3

Nothing. Nada.

Still nothing.
Asus Z370-A | 8700K @ 5.0 Ghz | 32GB DDR 4 | GTX 1080TI | 4K Monitor @ 30Hz | Samsung 970 EVO | Track IR 5 | Windows 10 Pro x64 | Virpil Mongoose Stick | TM Warthog Throttle | MFG X-Wind Rudder Pedals | Orbx Global | Orbx Vector | Orbx OpenLC NA, EU

AnkH
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby AnkH » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:43 pm

The frustrating thing is: while LM devs and engineers seem to answer to whatever kind of little issue in the forums, no answer is given here...
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Chris

Hardware: i7 8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte Aorus GTX-1080Ti OC, Samsung SSDs (250GB for OS, 2TB for P3D), Windows 10 Home

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Rob McCarthy
Lockheed Martin
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Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby Rob McCarthy » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:14 pm

Hi Everyone,

We are aware that some users can run into cases where autogen loading can slow down and load in patches when using higher settings. We haven't seen any noticeable difference between v4 versions but due to the large amount of autogen that can draw now there can be performance impacts when raising this along with other settings. Further improving autogen performance, along with other terrain performance improvements, are in the works. Thanks again for your patience and we'll keep you posted with our progress.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy
Rob McCarthy
Prepar3D® Core Lead

zap737
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:27 am

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby zap737 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:21 pm

Hi Everyone,

We are aware that some users can run into cases where autogen loading can slow down and load in patches when using higher settings. We haven't seen any noticeable difference between v4 versions but due to the large amount of autogen that can draw now there can be performance impacts when raising this along with other settings. Further improving autogen performance, along with other terrain performance improvements, are in the works. Thanks again for your patience and we'll keep you posted with our progress.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy

Hi Rob, with due respect, you have made similar statements after this problem was reported in v4.1, v4.2 and now v4.3.

Your statement gives no time frame for a resolution.

Can we expect a hot fix to address this issue?

If so, when might we expect the hot fix?

If not a hot fix, when can we expect a resolution?

Thanks
Asus Z370-A | 8700K @ 5.0 Ghz | 32GB DDR 4 | GTX 1080TI | 4K Monitor @ 30Hz | Samsung 970 EVO | Track IR 5 | Windows 10 Pro x64 | Virpil Mongoose Stick | TM Warthog Throttle | MFG X-Wind Rudder Pedals | Orbx Global | Orbx Vector | Orbx OpenLC NA, EU

BU830
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby BU830 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:38 am

Hi Everyone,

We are aware that some users can run into cases where autogen loading can slow down and load in patches when using higher settings. We haven't seen any noticeable difference between v4 versions but due to the large amount of autogen that can draw now there can be performance impacts when raising this along with other settings. Further improving autogen performance, along with other terrain performance improvements, are in the works. Thanks again for your patience and we'll keep you posted with our progress.

Regards,
Rob McCarthy
It is very easy to say that higher settings are fault. I don't think so, because I do not change specific settings regarding Autogen loading / Terrain loading etc. And this Problem doesn't exsist in 4.0

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Mike Sierra
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Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby Mike Sierra » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:41 am

It is very easy to say that higher settings are fault. I don't think so, because I do not change specific settings regarding Autogen loading / Terrain loading etc. And this Problem doesn't exsist in 4.0
With the release of v4.0 it was clearly stated that the way of displaying and the density of autogen was "completely changed", compared to v3.x. Since this day our complaints remained the same: late and patchy loading of the autogen.
I don't want to defend LM (ha! ME, the mighty Mike Sierra defends poor little LM.... LOL) but it seems that, including me myself, we are all addicted to maximum settings at drawing distances, densities and complexities (remember, I accept 10fps in favour of highest settings).
Rob's (repeated) statement sounds like "we know about the problem, are working at a solution, but we're stuck, lacking an idea of HOW to solve it". Beside, it seems not to affect ALL users... (if so, why?)
So I think, everyone of us affected ones has to find a personal compromise between either overlooking the patches or reduce the settings to a bearable extend. And to pray that the LM developers are struck with the salvific idea as soon as possible.
[sarcasm mode off]
Michael.
N 48°10' E 13°30' 496m
Austria, Europe
-vv-
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero, I7-8700K, 6x 4.70GHz, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR4-4133, 2x ASUS ROG Strix GeForce GTX 1080 (SLI) @ 5760x1080, Win10prof64 on 1TB SSD, P3Dv3.4.22.19868, P3Dv4.4.16.27077 on 2GB V-Nand SSD

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pmb
Posts: 316
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Location: Jena, Germany
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Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby pmb » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:11 am

Beside, it seems not to affect ALL users... (if so, why?)
I tried nearly all available settings to overcome patchy loading of autogen in the distance. I found indeed one and only one setting curing the disease: Lower autogen draw distance to medium. That's what I am doing right now. However, while autogen grows nicely out of the ground with this setting, the corresponding distance is roughly the same it was in the 3.x versions - where we complained over and over the radius being too low.

And of course you can make nice videos with no autogen popping in at all even with higher settings. Actually, I would say, autogen does NOT pop in in patches during most of my flying, as the patches just are not visible because the radius of visibilty just isn't high enough to show the issue because of mountains barring view, haze, just no autogen present outside cities etc. etc. It's the large plains filled with buildings where the issue shows up - reproducibly.

I am prepared to spend a crate of beer to someone finding alternative settings with autogen distance higher than medium to take off from KSFO and flying into KSJC at 3000 ft without autogen loading in patches.

Kind regards, Michael
Prepar3d4 Pro // Intel i7-6700K 4.0 GHz / Asus Z170 / Kingston 32 GB DDR4 / Samsung2 SSD 500 GB + SSD 1 TB + WD HD 6 TB / EVGA GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB / LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440 / Win 10/64

AnkH
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Autogen loading in patches...

Postby AnkH » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:52 am

What confuses me is this video of Rob:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qSLCP92NoY&t=583s

While the intention of the video is to show what settings have to be used to avoid blurries, you also do not see autogen popping late and in patches. And he uses "very high" for autogen drawing distance.

I have yet to test if using the frame limiter inside p3d and not via nvi really makes a difference, so far I did not have the time to really test this in v4.3. In v4.2, it did not help at all...
------------------
Chris

Hardware: i7 8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte Aorus GTX-1080Ti OC, Samsung SSDs (250GB for OS, 2TB for P3D), Windows 10 Home


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